rec.autos.simulators

by **Kendt Eklu** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:28:58

Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

Kendt

PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

by **Beckett Richard-qswi2** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:31:25

This argument's been running since GP1 came out. Nobody listens, though ;-)

It's not just the GP series, either - GPL gets much easier to drive, the
more computing power you have.

R.

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by **Rob Swindell** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:40:30

What's a canned spin?

> Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
> Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
> I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
> 40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
> I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
> but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
> time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
> the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
> Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

> Kendt

> PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

--
Rob Swindells
/////////////
Caps
Lock

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:08:37

A canned spin is a cheat by a programmer. Rather than model all the
details of grip downforce tires etc they choose a number for each turn or
for your car's attitude and then when you excede that number, either by
going too fast or sliding your backend out...the car will spin.
The characteristics of a canned spin are these:
a: the spin can be reproduced time after time
b: the spin usually ends up exactly the same everytime. (for example you
spin 360 degrees twice whether it's a slow speed spin or a high speed off.)
c: the sim gives no feedback that you are about to exceed the pre-programmed
limits. Once you do it's 'adios muchachos' You can't save a canned spin.
Canned spins are often found in arcade type racers, they were fairly
common in most sims until a few years ago. Toca Touring cars is probably
the easiest to discover. Go through any corner at say 120mp...the car is
fine, you can get through time after time as long as you don't exceed that
speed limit. If you do..snap spin and off you go.
Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix series has been debated for several years as
to it's possible use of canned spins. Nascar Heat was thought by some to
use canned spins when you drove down onto the apron. But I think it's just
a function of thier physics model..you don't WANT to drive onto the apron at
speed.
dave henrie

> What's a canned spin?

> > Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
> > Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
> > I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
> > 40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
> > I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
> > but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
> > time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
> > the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
> > Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

> > Kendt

> > PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

> --
> Rob Swindells
> /////////////
> Caps
> Lock

by **Andre Warrin** » Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:32:30

>Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
>Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
>I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
>40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
>I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
>but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
>time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
>the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
>Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

>Kendt

>PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

Yes I tried it again on my newer system. Ofcourse everything run much
smoother. I parked the car in the middle of a road, turned the wheel
completely left, and hit full gas. The car started spinning on and on
and on, -on the middle axis of the car-. This was really a stupid
sight, and after a minute of spinning I gave up.

Schumi was at Zandvoort last year in his Ferrari, he tried to do a 360
spin on the straight but couldn't manage it (he said it was -allmost-
impossible afterwards). He should play GP3 more often, he could learn
something from that :)

Anyway, I think it's natural that you get a more responsive car on a
higher-end system, GPL is a good example, if you drop below the
maximum 36fps car control becomes lots worse.

Andre

by **GraDe** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:04:13

Something GPL-heads believe exist in GP3 where basically the cars spin/loose
traction uncontrollably for no reason at all.

Need I say that the GPL community is ravaged with VROC backward drivers and
the like so they should know....

> What's a canned spin?

> > Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
> > Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
> > I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
> > 40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
> > I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
> > but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
> > time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
> > the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
> > Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

> > Kendt

> > PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

> --
> Rob Swindells
> /////////////
> Caps
> Lock

by **Alexpe** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:28:51

i thought his goal there was to do figure 8s?

donuts are possible...just ask Jean Alesi

pez

> >Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
> >Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
> >I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
> >40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
> >I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
> >but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
> >time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
> >the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
> >Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

> >Kendt

> >PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

> Yes I tried it again on my newer system. Ofcourse everything run much
> smoother. I parked the car in the middle of a road, turned the wheel
> completely left, and hit full gas. The car started spinning on and on
> and on, -on the middle axis of the car-. This was really a stupid
> sight, and after a minute of spinning I gave up.

> Schumi was at Zandvoort last year in his Ferrari, he tried to do a 360
> spin on the straight but couldn't manage it (he said it was -allmost-
> impossible afterwards). He should play GP3 more often, he could learn
> something from that :)

> Anyway, I think it's natural that you get a more responsive car on a
> higher-end system, GPL is a good example, if you drop below the
> maximum 36fps car control becomes lots worse.

> Andre

by **chainbreake** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:38:37

I tend to think GP3 has canned spins, too--at least some of the time.

Thanks to Dave Fisher, I've been able to spend a fair amount of time with
F1RC, and I don't think that sim has canned spins. I have been able to see
some of the AI behavior that has a lot of people up in arms, though. I've
started a lot of races from the back of the field on purpose, and only on
rare occasions is there not a multi-car pileup at the first turn. I've seen
this at Nurburgring, Spa, Magny-Cours, and Monza--the only tracks I've spent
time on with AI cars.

It's sort of a mixed bag when the AI gets behind me. Sometimes I get
punted, sometimes not. I don't think I'm doing anything to create the
situation, but maybe I am, although what I get the impression of is that
sometimes avoidance is turned on and sometimes not.

Although F1RC begins to grow on you, at least for hotlapping, GP3 (with the
GPx patch) still is the most pleasurable to me overall of those two and
F1CS2K.

Jerry Morelock

by **Graeme Nas** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:39:29

DGF criticises people for bringing GPL into threads unnecessarily to
praise it. I wonder what his stance is on people who bring GPL into a
thread for no other reason but to criticise it? :-)

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

by **Thom j** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:51:53

Gee Graeme he just sits back & watches his Ubi-Stock plummet!! :o)~

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by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:34:47

If you get the chance, go to the BHM site and download Ian Bell's setups.
They make a big difference, for me at least. I set my cars up very similiar
to his. Also, experiment (if you haven't already) with the steering lock. I
usually raise it up a few notches which makes the car feel more stable.

David G Fisher

> I tend to think GP3 has canned spins, too--at least some of the time.

> Thanks to Dave Fisher, I've been able to spend a fair amount of time with
> F1RC, and I don't think that sim has canned spins. I have been able to
see
> some of the AI behavior that has a lot of people up in arms, though. I've
> started a lot of races from the back of the field on purpose, and only on
> rare occasions is there not a multi-car pileup at the first turn. I've
seen
> this at Nurburgring, Spa, Magny-Cours, and Monza--the only tracks I've
spent
> time on with AI cars.

> It's sort of a mixed bag when the AI gets behind me. Sometimes I get
> punted, sometimes not. I don't think I'm doing anything to create the
> situation, but maybe I am, although what I get the impression of is that
> sometimes avoidance is turned on and sometimes not.

> Although F1RC begins to grow on you, at least for hotlapping, GP3 (with
the
> GPx patch) still is the most pleasurable to me overall of those two and
> F1CS2K.

> Jerry Morelock

> > Anyone remember all the "canned-spins" controversy dogging GP2/3?
> > Since it's a GP weekend, I've been playing a lot of GP3, and now that
> > I finally have a nice system, and can run at 31FPS with PO around
> > 40-60%, I think the joys of GP3 are starting to really shine through.
> > I get the impression that there are definitely canned spins in GP3,
> > but the code is only invoked when the system has very little processor
> > time to spare. The way things are running on my system now, I can get
> > the car all kinds of out of shape and still feel in control.
> > Anyone else having done an upgrade find the same thing?

> > Kendt

> > PS - I still suck at GP3, though ;)...

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:36:10

I'm going to have to think about that for awhile. :-P

David G Fisher

by **chainbreake** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:28:17

I'll give them a try.

Jerry Morelock

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:56:48

A good question. It is an extinct animal, similar to lice, that was at
points indeed present in the 'simulations' of yesterday. Basically, it
used to bite whenever the simuation entered a certain set of parameters,
suddenly sending the object of the simulation into rotary motion on
which the canned spin fed. The moment simulations started to at least
vaguely use real world physics, the symbiosis with canned spins was
broken as the rotary motion became a direct consequence of the physics
engine. No special bites were necessary for this to happen, which left
the canned spins without their source of food, making them extinct.

Nowadays, it's mostly a derogatory term (e.g. 'your sim has canned
spins') that has very little to do with reality, but hints at the
simulation not being proper. The term is also used by people who don't
have enough skill in either setup or driving departments, and loose
control of the car for reasons not quite obvious to them (e.g. 'I spun
there for no reason whatsoever. I'm sure the sim has canned spins').

-Gregor

> What's a canned spin?

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:34:14

"Gregor Veble" <> Nowadays, it's mostly a derogatory term (e.g. 'your sim
has canned
Well then, I'm here to proclaim that ALL sims have canned spins. THAT
must be the problem...Cuz I've never, never found a reason for spinning
hahahhahaa ;)
dave henrie

rec.autos.simulators

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