rec.autos.simulators

Someone asked this question (why is NASCAR popular?) a week or so ago
and there was a flood of the usual NASCAR hating posts.

NASCAR does not deserve the abuse I've seen heaped on it here.  It's
down at the level of the folks who say we all like racing because of
the crashes.

I like NASCAR because:

1.   Half the field have cars that, properly set up and driven, could
win the race.  And sometimes the underdogs have the perfect race and
win.

2.  The complicated strategy of setting the car up (for long runs?,
for short runs?) and then adjusting it in pit stops to match the
conditions during the race.

3.  The need to race the traffic as well as the track.

F1 lovers seem to be NASCAR haters.  Of the more popular forms F1 is
my least favorite.  We now have a whopping six cars that could win the
race, up from the usual four (or two).  And three of those drivers are
second class citizens who know they are suposed to let their teamate
finish ahead of them (even if Mika hasn't quite figured that one out
this year).  I'll still watch a F1 race on occaision, and going to
Monza last year was a pretty neat experience, even if it was a lousy
race.  

Some credentials:  I like all forms of racing.  I've attended many
races::  F1: Watkins 1964 , Phoenix about 1990, Monza 2000, CART
(Denver about 1991), NASCAR (Richmond 1997), IRL, Busch, World of
Outlaws, Trans-Am (outside Montreal circa 1970), vintage, local stuff.
I raced SCCA for 10 years.  I sim (badly) GPL, NASCAR4, and GP3.  

I'm a serious motorsports guy.  And I like NASCAR.  I'm amazed that
someone could hate NASCAR with a passion and like racing.

i don't hate Nascar.  Its pretty alien to me though(living in South
Africa).  You can't even buy N4 in the shops.  

I saw N3 for sale all of last year at the local computer shops.
Gathering dust.

Its more like lack of interest.  I've seen some of the highlights on
ESPN, but i tend to watch CART instead of Nascar.  Can't really say
why.

The media coverage here is pretty close to zero and only people with
satellite TV really get to see it.   Formula one and others are
broadcast on regulat tv live each sunday and the awareness is much
higjher.

Don't mean to knock your fave sport, but I know the names more from
playing the Nascar games than anything else.  Also the sponsors aren't
easily identifiable for someone who doesn't see those brands in the
local stores.  Budweiser & Kelloggs are well known, but many others
are a mystery.

What does Hooters make, for example? (actually, i saw austin powers,
so you don't have to answer!).

I think I've read that Nascar doesn not have many non-US drivers.
Maybe that's also a reason the media coverage isn't great outside of
there, but i'm just guessing.

Regards all,
istoff

"Its easy to get lost in thought
if you don't go there often"    - Me, 1993

Very nicely written, Bob.

I happen to agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you laid
out your premise nicely.

If you raced for real....then give your sim racing more time to come around.
Having real-world race experience is actually a bit of a handicap actually,
quite opposite of what most people think.  However, after you've overcome
the "handicap" your real racing experience will take over and give you a
distinct advantage over most sim-only drivers.  They may be able to handle
their cars "driving  wise" but they lack "situational awareness" during the
race that is not lacking with drivers with real racing experience.  There
are a few exceptions of course...on both sides of things as usual.

I also ran in SCCA for about 10 years, instructed too.  Welcome to sim
racing!

Regards,

Tom Pabst

A very nice post, I must say. I can't remember exactly where I read it,
but there was a nice editorial about F1 once. It dealt with F1 fans vs.
F1 enthusiasts. An F1 fan will, for example, love Ferrari and Michael
Schumacher and say that Hakkinen only managed to be a champion because
he has the best car. On the other hand, an F1 enthusiast would generally
not care so much who wins (everyone has their favourites, though :) ),
as long as there is good racing involved, be it for the first place or
lower down.

A similar principle could apply here. A motorsports enthusiast who can
appreciate what goes into the sport will not care so much what series it
is, be it F1, NASCAR, or even sidecar racing, as long as there is a
serious effort of the teams and drivers involved in order to win. Some
forms of racing put more effort into teamwork and making the car, others
depend more on the effort into the driver. But as long as a series
remains a true sport, it can be enjoyable. Saying that NASCAR has
'better racing', or that 'F1 turns right as well' is really pointless.
In each series, the best combination of chassis, teamwork and driver
will in the end produce a win.

-Gregor

Couldn't have said it better myself Gregor... I second your post!

Jan.
=---

<snip>
<snip>

I agree with that. I can't drive for medical reasons, so my only "in-
car" experiences have been in sims. That makes some things easier, as I
don't have to adapt from a real car. Braking is a case in point - I've
*never* right-foot braked. Ever. Left-foot braking has seemed natural
to me from the start - because it's the only way I know.

--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

You were an instructor? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm has me worried since I have raced
you online.

Dave

I truly feel sorry for anyone who cannot identify with HOOTERS!  You are
deprived my friend!  ;)

Seriously... it's a restaurant chain known for its Chicken Wings and
"***s" (IE - Non chicken, of the Female variety <G>)

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

As RAS and the internet in general is truly international, I think most of
the people should understand NASCAR is really an "American" race series.
Yes, it has some following outside the US, but nothing in comparison to
inside.

I too love most motorsports and out of the "majors", I like F1 the least
(Let me clarify.. I don't consider the IRL to be a major anything unless you
are referring to a joke <G>) mainly because I find the actual "racing", or
lack there of, boring although I do appreciate the technology, skill,
talent, and like Hooters, the "scenery" to be found at the races  ;)  I grew
up watching oval racing, but my real-world experience was in the SCCA with
my home track being Watkins.  I am not the biggest open wheel fan around as
I like watching "cars" in series like NASCAR, Trans-Am, Sports-Cars, Vintage
Racing (particularly CAN-AM) and I am a huge fan of Touring Car racing.

Perhaps it's an "American" thing..   just like I think Soccer ("football")
is about as exciting as watching paint dry.  (The riots and *** not
withstanding).

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ#4395450

Yea he had to teach them all how to turn "Left & Right" hahahaha

| You were an instructor? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm has me worried since I have
raced
| you online.
| Dave
|
| > Very nicely written, Bob.
| >
| > I also ran in SCCA for about 10 years, instructed too.  Welcome to sim
| > racing!
| > Regards,
| > Tom Pabst

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I cant wait until they come out with HUMMERS {think about it..:-)..}

| I truly feel sorry for anyone who cannot identify with HOOTERS!  You are
| deprived my friend!  ;)
| Seriously... it's a restaurant chain known for its Chicken Wings and
| "***s" (IE - Non chicken, of the Female variety <G>)
| http://www.racesimcentral.net/

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
Version: 6.0.262 / Virus Database: 132 - Release Date: 6/12/2001

Indeed.  I think we saw that last week (over Jacob's NG)

Nascar fans : The ones who whined about Dale's win.
Nascar enthusiasts : The ones who appreciated (or not) the race.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Monica's? hehe

J. Janasov

Hate to bother you again, but what exactly are the Papyrus benchmark times
for GPL?  Are they the replay times?

Thanks
J. Janasov

Yup, exactly.

well we were at Sears Point.

Dave