rec.autos.simulators

I just started reading this news group and I can't help but
get the impression that all the whiners and Sim bashers are
14 year old's that can't drive a real car. And when the Sim
doesn't get their rocks off, they start bashing it. I am at
least one person that's grateful for all the time and man
hours that these companies put into these racing sims.

I'm not saying that all ***es are not warranted, but it
seems to me that if your old enough to buy the game , you
should be smart enough to figure out by examining the box if
its arcade or a true Sim. Take Daytona for example, its very
clear by looking at the box its a arcade game.

I try to rate them overall not because its missing a view I
wish it had and find it doesn't have. Hell if people would
just wait a few days to find out the pros and cons of the
game, then they wouldn't have to waste their money or they
wouldn't have anything to *** about would they.

So if it doesn't have a dashboard view, SO WHAT. How can one
missing view in your opinion destroy the whole game?
Personally I like the full view that most sims have, you
know all you see is the road. That view usually is more life
like to me and it usually gives more of a sensation of speed
to me.

I think a lot of us seem to forget that these Sims are still
just games. My best advice is to wait and read the group,
form your opinion and if it sounds good buy it, if theirs a
lot of complaints don't buy it. After all it's a little too
late to *** after you've thrown your money on the counter.

If your a 14 year old playing with daddys computer, and has
nothing better to do than whine about a dashboard view, then
go to drivers training, get a license, get a real car, and
turn the dammed computer off!

The word "simulation" implies realism, of course limited to
the current available hardware. But flying behind your car
has nothing to do with driving a car!

l8er
ronny

snip

I'd love to see you run after your car, trying to keep it on the road
;^)

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Ronny,

      Who said that you only have a chase view from the car in Burnout,I
myself us the hood view, which I wish N2 and other racing sims have but lack
one of the biggest draw backs to a***pit view is you see no hood, so you
can't judge distances very well.I have been racing sims for 5 years now,here
are games that come to mind that were suppose to be sims that arent, Daytona
USA (JUNK), ABC's Indy Car (EVEN MORE JUNK), TEST DRIVE, NEED FOR SPEED 1
and 2..What makes a good sim is how realistic the car feels and,how
realistic it is in setting up the car.Burnout does both of these very
well.So if you choose to not buy the sim because of 1 view,thats your lost
and your money.Just goto the webpage and checkout the screenshots it might
change your mind.Oh yeah Xcar was meant to be a sim.Oh to answer someones
question about what type cars are in the game you have the choose of over 20
cars and 20 actual tracks.The cars range from a 56 Corvette to a Rail
car,you can race in bracket racing or plain heads up (which I like best in
my 66 Mustang).The only draw back tot he game to me is there are only 2
fords in the game :(.Just a little Joke. This is a true Sportsman Darg Sim
to me if you look at the whole game and are not limited to a view decison.OH
is N2 not a sim because you don't have seprate Shocks and Spring settings or
track bar adjustments,and even though you have a cocokpit view in N2 you
can't see the hood, so you can judge how close to the car infront of you
better,always what about the lack of making your own engines and shaving the
sheetmetal for aerodynamics.NO this not make N2 not a sim N2 is a great sim
but there are limitations in all Sims in one form or another.Just take out
Burnouts screenshots and even you can try it out at your local Computer
store you might change your mind.

Robert "GT86" Platts
BlackHole MotorSports

Agreed...

Oh, well! The standard reply... Of course it's my money, but how can it
be
my loss if I don't like it. IMHO this ONE (1) view is the most important
of
all. Your preferences are different, that's cool!

Oh my, I liked the screenshots of CPR! My racing buddy and I spooged
over them
for months, the rest is history... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

What cars have you been driving that you couldn't see the hood,every car I
have owned or driving I've been able to see the hood.Well except for one and
that was OLd's version of a miny van the Shiloutte.Oh I meant to say Xcar
wasn't meant to be a sim not was.

Well that does depend upon your seating-posistion. I've driven a bunch of
cars were i couldnt see the end/front of the hood (THATS what he's talkong
about Rob - not the part of the hood thats close to the windshield.)

If you really want to know some cars you cant see the front of the hood in
try this...

Fiat Strada Abarth, Toyota HiAce, VW Transporter, Morris Mini, VW Beetle,
Citroen CX TRI, Opel Combo, Pontiac Figero, Ford Escort, Volvo S40, etc,
etc, etc.....

Like they say " its depends upon your point of view" !!

Anyway... I truly belive that had Burnout had a In-car view... seeing the
front/egde of the car wouldnt be such a big problem.... look at a top-fueler
etc... The driver is seated miles behind the front wheels - thus getting a
very lean line of vision to the front tires, whilch inturn should make him
see them...

I willing to bet that most drag-racers in top--fuel etc. do infact see the
front tires when they drive. Ofcourse i could be wrong... never sat in one.
Anyway knowing both yourown and the cars limits is all part of racing. Hell
look at N2... you dont see the cars "edges" from the***bit!! And NO! -
using external view is not at all the same as driving from "within" the
***bit!!

Edwin Solheim, Norway
ed_ on NROS

The Paddock: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Cheek Junior Team: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~solhmrek

Drivers:

I can see why the***pit view might of not made the 1st version of the
BURN-OUT Sim.. You have over 20 cars and each require a different
dash board of very intensive graphics.   Its a night mare of a job and would
require a team of graphics artist.  With a single chasis game like NASCAR
or INDYCAR you have but 1 dashboard.  But with BURN-OUT you
have hell, 20 cars..  Rail, Funny Cars, Pro Stock, Coupes, etc ,etc.. you
get the picture..  I think it would be cool sitting in the seat of a FUNNY
car and look at the dash or***pit.  Imagine:

1).    You get in the car!!
2).    You see the dash***pit
3).    You do the burnout
3a).    The***pit fills up with smoke, you cant see do do..
4).    Some guys comes up and raises the hood.
4a).    They check some gauges.  You tell the guy to modify your fuel flow, etc
5).    They lower the hood..
6).    You do the run.. Maybe you get a fire inside.. You see flames and
    you start *** on the smoke.

Tell you what guys, the***pit isnt just a view.. Its an adventure.. Lets play
the game, have some fun and see what Bethesda comes up with next..

Don Wilshe

Drivers:

I can see why the***pit view might of not made the 1st version of the
BURN-OUT Sim.. You have over 20 cars and each require a different
dash board of very intensive graphics.   Its a night mare of a job and would
require a team of graphics artist.  With a single chasis game like NASCAR
or INDYCAR you have but 1 dashboard.  But with BURN-OUT you
have hell, 20 cars..  Rail, Funny Cars, Pro Stock, Coupes, etc ,etc.. you
get the picture..  I think it would be cool sitting in the seat of a FUNNY
car and look at the dash or***pit.  Imagine:

1).    You get in the car!!
2).    You see the dash***pit
3).    You do the burnout
3a).    The***pit fills up with smoke, you cant see do do..
4).    Some guys comes up and raises the hood.
4a).    They check some gauges.  You tell the guy to modify your fuel flow, etc
5).    They lower the hood..
6).    You do the run.. Maybe you get a fire inside.. You see flames and
    you start *** on the smoke.

Tell you what guys, the***pit isnt just a view.. Its an adventure.. Lets play
the game, have some fun and see what Bethesda comes up with next..

Don Wilshe

FWIW
I drive a '71 Corvette that has a nose that just sorta drops off, can't see the
end of it from behind the wheel. (Maybe if I drove it like a Shrinermobile with
my head stickin' outta the Tee top I could) :) No offense y'all Shriners, I owe
you a lot! Doesn't stop me from driving the heck outta it though. You just know
after a while where the hood ends.

Joe.

Well I guess the reason I can see the end of the hood in just about any
carhas to do with me being 6'2" tall,So I can't fit in those smaller cars
anyway except for the escort,I dated a girl at had a Escort and was able to
see the hood and top of the fenders fine.

Robert "GT86" Platts
BlackHole MotorSports

One of the biggest problems with all these sims is the lack of peripheral
vision. Driving a real race car is nothing at all like the "tunnel-vision"
view that you get through the "viewport" of your monitor screen. I used to
own and drive a fuel dragster a number of years ago, so I can answer your
question that yes, you can definitely see the front wheels and use them to
"aim" the car. However, you can also see stuff while racing such as your
opponent's front wheels out of the corner of your eye! This is difficult to
show on a flat monitor. Maybe the "behind the car" view actually works
better this way since you can see your opponent while you're racing. Of
course, my first dragster was a "slingshot" chassis, so I was pretty much
did have a behind-the-car view!

--
Doug Gordon
(Remove "nospam." from e-mail address)

Trev

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Hark - is that violins I hear?

Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but surely Bethesda decide how many cars to
put in the game and how many different***pits they would need? One
***pit per "class" of car would be enough, or even randomise the
gauge positions within each class to creat a "unique"***pit for each
car. This is hardly rocket science.

Frankly I doubt very much if that is the reason, or if it is then I
must say my opinion of Bethesda's planning versus their impression of
what a real sim should contain has dropped several notches. It's clear
that making a sim involves compromises, that goes without saying, but
the position of the driver's eyes doesn't number among them.

Cheers!
John