rec.autos.simulators

For some reason, the race didn't score.  Edred ?

I only have one minor gripe, and I'll do it without mentioning names :)

With 15 - 20 laps to go (or so), there was one car (on the lead lap) that
was MARKEDLY slower than the pack behind in the corners.  Slow to the point
that several times I had to actually lock up the tires to stay out of the
back-end of him.  The speed difference really was quite major.

Unless it's the last 2 laps or so, I always let faster cars go by.  It's
just a wreck waiting to happen if you don't, especially at such a tight
track like this.

This really bunched us up for many laps until we finally get by, and I even
ended up tapping the wall out of 4 when I gave up and tried to go around on
the outside, which is not what you want to have to do at this track.

No biggie, I just found it a bit unusual :)

-Larry

I had a front row seat to that one... good job the car behind me understood
the situation as well and we didn't really end up fighting amongst
ourselves. I think it deserves a mention this same person later, on fresh
tyres after last yellow, really barged past you and me to the point where we
both had to go out of our way quite some way to prevent an accident.

How was that pass I made on you, BTW? -Locked a wheel, but I think I held my
line quite well. If you thought it was a bit "limit", feel free to say so
though. With one to go it was a bit "now or never" so I took a bigger chance
than I normally would.

Jan.
=---

Yeah, I saw you back there :)  I appreciate that you were being very careful
because I have no doubt my braking was quite erratic at this point, not
knowing when the hell to hit them :)

I was wondering how the heck he was able to blast past us like that!  I saw
him coming, saw that you were being pressured, so I just nuged up high and
let you both go by under me.  There was no need to contest it because you
were both faster.  I pretty much used up my tires during that 3-5 laps of
trying to get around him (The flat spots probably didn't help :)), and I had
a little fender damage from one of the attempts so I think I had lost some
downforce as well.

It was just fine, Jan.  No worries :)  I knew you were being pressured hard
so I stayed up as far as I could :)

-Larry
.

Score where?  My LPI changed.

Mrention names. If they don't know there's a problem, they can't fix it.  
If you're talking about me, bite me. :)

If you're faster, it's your job to find the best path around the slower
car, not his job to let you by.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
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Heck it coulda been me.  On the second to last restart I was really
braking hard in the turns since I was in heavy traffic and it seemed
like I was on the bottom 3 wide in serveral situations and was trying
to make sure I didn't push up into the cars on the outside of me.

Agreed.  I don't have a problem with a slower car trying to hold
position if the car behind is faster.  If it is a lapper and the
leaders are clearly faster then, yes, you should pull out of the way.
However, if you are pretty equal and you are fighting to stay on the
lead lap, then I don't have a problem with that either.  Personally if
it is early on in the race I will probably let the faster car go when
racing for position... 20 or 10 laps to go, you better figure out a
way to get around me.

Brian Oster

--
Edward
Commissioner
Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)

I don't remember you from the race, but I remember running with you in
practice and based on practice I expected you to be one of the "faster
guys", but I understand your position...  my first RASCAR race my only
goal was not to be the one who prompted Eldred to create a muzzle
list.

Brian Oster

On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 00:04:37 GMT, "Edward C"

--
Edward
Commissioner
Middle-Aged Racers Association (MARA)

Lap 88: I think it was Neil C going slow into turn 3 as the leaders went
through. He pushed up into me and caused me to spear towards the wall and I
don't know how the hell I kept it out of there. It didn't call out a yellow.
John Simmons was right behind me when this happened. BTW: No blame to Neil
C, it just happened. I'm not the sort of guy to get all annoyed about
something like that. Lap 95: I get a run on
Colin Harris out of 2 and am alongside all the way down the backstretch.
Into turn 3 I hook the kerb and push up into him, pushing him into the wall
and out of the race. My fault and I do apologise (Could've done with a
little more room though :-). Once again, John Simmons was right
behind me so he can give his viewpoint on what happened in both incidents.
Colin Harris was not completely innocent though - in another incident he
pushed up into somebody else and put them into the wall. I was right behind
them on that one. I don't want to blame anybody, or make excuses, I just
wanted to say we are on the receiving end just as much as we cause them.

The only other things that happened during the race to me was on lap 3 when
there was a crash in turn 3/4 and I clipped somebody on the way through, did
a 360 and continued with no damage, and John Simmons clipped me while under
yellow by the pit entrance. That one was my fault as I hit the brakes pretty
sharpish to avoid whoever it was in front of me.

I think it was someone else. I didn't clip anyone at pit entrance
(although I did cut off Mitch on pit entry at the lap 32 yellow with no
contact between the two of us).

You were warping side-to-side bad enough for me to not want to attempt a
pass, especially after warp-wrecked Colin on lap 95.

--
=========================================================
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If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
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=========================================================

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Wasn't you. A group of cars battling for position is always going to be
slower and present a problem for passing. Nothing to do but wait for it to
settle down and pick one's moment. Perfectly acceptable.

Agree with both of you... however, there is a fine line between making the
faster car find a way around and preventing the faster car from finding a
way around. Which was crossed in the incident referred to, IMO.

Jan.
=---

Race did indeed show on the list as having ratings enabled and my LPI
changed as well. However, the line in chat showing the number of
incidents/points/etc.. didn't appear after the race.

#8 DEI Chevy Monte Carlo, driven by Phasor. One Travis Lindt, apparently.

It's another thing altogether to prevent the faster car from finding a way
around. You'll notice neither Larry nor myself repayed the compliment once
mr. Lindt found some speed again courtesy of fresh tyres. Our fight was with
eachother and it would have been perfectly acceptable for Larry to attempt
to hang on for that last lap. Larry decided the game was up, however, which
I consider very sporting of him.

Not saying Phasor should be punished, banned or whatever, just saying I'm
not happy about his actions late in the race.

Jan.
=---

Well, there's always a "what-if" applicable.  Suffice it to say trhat
when racing for position, it's generally up to the faster car to find a
way around the slower car.  If a lapped car or someone about to be
lapped is slower, GENERALLY, they should allow the other car to pass.

Every situation is unique.  It's up to all drivers concerned to take the
action they view as appropriate and fair.  We're just a bunch of guys
racing online. There's no money involved, no tangible prestige
associated with a win, and we all want to finish all the races we run in
without denting up our virtual sheet metal.  Hell, we're not even racing
for points!  

It's not that tough to show some fair play, and as soon as everyone
realizes this, our races will be plagued much less by cautions.  It can
still be fun, even if you're not biting and scratching for a top-5
finish.

--
=========================================================
DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons
DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2
RASCAR Roster
  http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar
Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
  http://www.paddedwall.org/john
Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
  http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast

If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================