rec.autos.simulators

by **Justin Chenie** » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:49:27

I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card to improve my N4 frame rate (I'm
currently getting 20fps with my Diamond Stealth III - 32mg card). I see
lots of people post about GeForce, but can anybody give me some advice
on which card to get - one that's been around for a bit so the price
isn't so high?

Here's my current system:
PIII - 650
64mg RAM
Diamond Stealth III - 32mg

Thanks in advance

Justin

by **Uncle Feste** » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:00:49

> I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card to improve my N4 frame rate (I'm
> currently getting 20fps with my Diamond Stealth III - 32mg card). I see
> lots of people post about GeForce, but can anybody give me some advice
> on which card to get - one that's been around for a bit so the price
> isn't so high?

If price is a concern, look for the GeForce2 MX. For just a little
more, you can get better performance from a GeForce2 GTS. Look out on
eBay, I got my GTS out there for $150. Good luck.

--

Fester

by **Jon Wille** » Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:55:12

In decreasing order of performance:

* GeForce3
* GeForce2 Ultra
* GeForce2 Pro
* GeForce2
* DDR GeForce
* GeForce2 MX
* SDR GeForce

The disadvantage to the original GeForce is that it consumes more
power. Some motherboards and/or power supplies don't like that. You
may find a 16 MB GeForce2 MX, probably labeled "OEM"; poor choice.
The 64 MB cards are quite expensive. 32 MB is the sweet spot.

You'll probably be happiest with a GeForce2 ($180 - $200) or a
GeForce2 MX ($100 - $130). One more note on the GeForce2 MX.
Creative sells a "DDR" version. That's 64-bit DDR, compared to
128-bit SDR: no improvement.

You may find the Voodoo4 or Voodoo5 at fire-sale prices. However,
don't expect support from 3dfx or NVIDIA. I've heard that RMAs are
not being accepted. Also, the Voodoo5 does not have a universal AGP
slot, so it doesn't fit in some P-IV motherboards.

I don't know much about the Radeon. The biggest question mark when it
comes to ATI is drivers. Perhaps some Radeon N4 user can fill in the
blanks.

While N4 does sport an improved graphics engine, the CPU is probably
more important than the video card. If I were to choose between
GeForce3/P-III 650 and GeForce2 MX/P-III 1000, I'd probably choose the
latter.

>I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card to improve my N4 frame rate (I'm
>currently getting 20fps with my Diamond Stealth III - 32mg card). I see
>lots of people post about GeForce, but can anybody give me some advice
>on which card to get - one that's been around for a bit so the price
>isn't so high?

>Here's my current system:
>PIII - 650
>64mg RAM
>Diamond Stealth III - 32mg

--

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:50:36

"Jon WillekeIf I were to choose between
Good summary and your conclusion is spot on.
dave henrie

by **Mark Lierma** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 04:46:13

If you're an nVidia fan, that is.

by **J. Janaso** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 05:27:27

Get an MX and more system ram.

J. Janasov

> >"Jon WillekeIf I were to choose between
> >> GeForce3/P-III 650 and GeForce2 MX/P-III 1000, I'd probably choose the
> >> latter.

> > Good summary and your conclusion is spot on.
> >dave henrie

> If you're an nVidia fan, that is.

by **BRH** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 06:19:45

I may be offbase here with this question, but (if so) it's because I'm not up
on all the latest videocards. While the list provided is extremely useful,
can someone provide or suggest specific videocard names to match up with
these chipsets? (ie - Annihilator; Prophet; etc.) Or are the cards CLEARLY
marked GeForce 2 Ultra, or Pro or whatever on the box? And are there any
manufacturer's cards to avoid?

One last question: Although performance in racing sims is the top priority,
are any better than others with 2D performance -- particularly with regard to
image clarity. I do some photo-editing so image clarity (2D) is important to
me, as well.

Thanks.

> In decreasing order of performance:

> * GeForce3
> * GeForce2 Ultra
> * GeForce2 Pro
> * GeForce2
> * DDR GeForce
> * GeForce2 MX
> * SDR GeForce

> The disadvantage to the original GeForce is that it consumes more
> power. Some motherboards and/or power supplies don't like that. You
> may find a 16 MB GeForce2 MX, probably labeled "OEM"; poor choice.
> The 64 MB cards are quite expensive. 32 MB is the sweet spot.

> You'll probably be happiest with a GeForce2 ($180 - $200) or a
> GeForce2 MX ($100 - $130). One more note on the GeForce2 MX.
> Creative sells a "DDR" version. That's 64-bit DDR, compared to
> 128-bit SDR: no improvement.

> You may find the Voodoo4 or Voodoo5 at fire-sale prices. However,
> don't expect support from 3dfx or NVIDIA. I've heard that RMAs are
> not being accepted. Also, the Voodoo5 does not have a universal AGP
> slot, so it doesn't fit in some P-IV motherboards.

> I don't know much about the Radeon. The biggest question mark when it
> comes to ATI is drivers. Perhaps some Radeon N4 user can fill in the
> blanks.

> While N4 does sport an improved graphics engine, the CPU is probably
> more important than the video card. If I were to choose between
> GeForce3/P-III 650 and GeForce2 MX/P-III 1000, I'd probably choose the
> latter.

> >I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card to improve my N4 frame rate (I'm
> >currently getting 20fps with my Diamond Stealth III - 32mg card). I see
> >lots of people post about GeForce, but can anybody give me some advice
> >on which card to get - one that's been around for a bit so the price
> >isn't so high?

> >Here's my current system:
> >PIII - 650
> >64mg RAM
> >Diamond Stealth III - 32mg
> --

--
Bert

by **redTe** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:05:28

Exactly. More RAM will offer the biggest improvement.

by **Jagg** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 08:02:22

This really bugs me. Stores are still selling Voodoo5 cards to
consumers when it has no future support and no warranty from 3DFX.
Criminal.

by **Jon Wille** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:42:08

I recommend that you peruse the "round-up" or "shoot-out" reviews at
tomshardware.com, anandtech.com, sharkyextreme.com, etc. They'll help
explain why an Asus V7700 Deluxe costs more than an Annihilator 2.
You have to decide whether you need TV-out, a digital connection for
an LCD screen, DVD hardware assist, etc.

Here are a few models to get you started:

GeForce2 Ultra
Creative Annihilator 2 Ultra
Elsa Gladiac Ultra
GeForce2
Asus V7700 (Pure or Deluxe)
Creative Annihilator 2
Elsa Gladiac
Guillemot/Hercules Prophet II
DDR GeForce
Asus V6800
Creative Annihilator Pro
Elsa Erazor X2
GeForce2 MX
Asus V7100
Creative Annihilator 2 MX
Elsa Gladiac MX
Guillemot/Hercules Prophet II MX
SDR GeForce
Asus V6600
Creative Annihilator
Elsa Erazor X

>I may be offbase here with this question, but (if so) it's because I'm not up
>on all the latest videocards. While the list provided is extremely useful,
>can someone provide or suggest specific videocard names to match up with
>these chipsets? (ie - Annihilator; Prophet; etc.) Or are the cards CLEARLY
>marked GeForce 2 Ultra, or Pro or whatever on the box? And are there any
>manufacturer's cards to avoid?

--

by **Jon Wille** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:57:10

Once again, I should qualify this conclusion as being particular to
sims, which seem to have more complex AI and physics. For
first-person shooters, like Quake III, it's not as clear cut. At
1024x768x32 and above, a GeForce2 is limited by memory bandwidth--an
MX even moreso. That is, your 1.2 GHz Athlon won't be worth much more
than an 800 MHz Duron. If your tastes lean in that direction, you may
be interested in a GeForce2 Pro (identical to the GeForce2, except for
faster memory).

>"Jon WillekeIf I were to choose between
>> GeForce3/P-III 650 and GeForce2 MX/P-III 1000, I'd probably choose the
>> latter.

> Good summary and your conclusion is spot on.
>dave henrie

--

by **Scott Moor** » Sun, 04 Mar 2001 14:57:17

Another good resource that we just recently posted is at
http://www.theuspits.com . Click on the link that says "Uncle Goy sits on
the bench.."
Goy Larsen did a very nice comparison of several CPU/Vid Card combos using
MBTR, NASCAR Heat, and 3DMark 2000- and there are a few surprises. Hope you
find it helpful.

> I may be offbase here with this question, but (if so) it's because I'm not
up
> on all the latest videocards. While the list provided is extremely
useful,
> can someone provide or suggest specific videocard names to match up with
> these chipsets? (ie - Annihilator; Prophet; etc.) Or are the cards
CLEARLY
> marked GeForce 2 Ultra, or Pro or whatever on the box? And are there any
> manufacturer's cards to avoid?

> One last question: Although performance in racing sims is the top
priority,
> are any better than others with 2D performance -- particularly with regard
to
> image clarity. I do some photo-editing so image clarity (2D) is important
to
> me, as well.

> Thanks.

> > In decreasing order of performance:

> > * GeForce3
> > * GeForce2 Ultra
> > * GeForce2 Pro
> > * GeForce2
> > * DDR GeForce
> > * GeForce2 MX
> > * SDR GeForce

> > The disadvantage to the original GeForce is that it consumes more
> > power. Some motherboards and/or power supplies don't like that. You
> > may find a 16 MB GeForce2 MX, probably labeled "OEM"; poor choice.
> > The 64 MB cards are quite expensive. 32 MB is the sweet spot.

> > You'll probably be happiest with a GeForce2 ($180 - $200) or a
> > GeForce2 MX ($100 - $130). One more note on the GeForce2 MX.
> > Creative sells a "DDR" version. That's 64-bit DDR, compared to
> > 128-bit SDR: no improvement.

> > You may find the Voodoo4 or Voodoo5 at fire-sale prices. However,
> > don't expect support from 3dfx or NVIDIA. I've heard that RMAs are
> > not being accepted. Also, the Voodoo5 does not have a universal AGP
> > slot, so it doesn't fit in some P-IV motherboards.

> > I don't know much about the Radeon. The biggest question mark when it
> > comes to ATI is drivers. Perhaps some Radeon N4 user can fill in the
> > blanks.

> > While N4 does sport an improved graphics engine, the CPU is probably
> > more important than the video card. If I were to choose between
> > GeForce3/P-III 650 and GeForce2 MX/P-III 1000, I'd probably choose the
> > latter.

> > >I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card to improve my N4 frame rate
(I'm
> > >currently getting 20fps with my Diamond Stealth III - 32mg card). I see
> > >lots of people post about GeForce, but can anybody give me some advice
> > >on which card to get - one that's been around for a bit so the price
> > >isn't so high?

> > >Here's my current system:
> > >PIII - 650
> > >64mg RAM
> > >Diamond Stealth III - 32mg
> > --

> --
> Bert

by **Joe6** » Mon, 05 Mar 2001 04:06:38

>> Good summary and your conclusion is spot on.
>>dave henrie

>If you're an nVidia fan, that is.

If you're a fan of the best price and performance, that is.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

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