rec.autos.simulators

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

Tony L

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Tony L » Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
Epping road.

Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
left corner.

I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
make L-Platers give this a go.

T.


The Gardner

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by The Gardner » Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I think until I took an advance and a defensive driving course those games
helped me understand certain concepts about handling.

Al Gardner

Geof

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Geof » Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I agree, car sims can definitely teach you things about driving. But nothing
beats jumping in the car and going for a spin, and pushing the limits in a
controlled environment is still much better than a sim.

Geoff

Andrew Gorto

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Andrew Gorto » Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I couldn't agree more.
I was (and still am) a keen player of Indycar racing (the originial, about
1994). I beleive it is very good on teacheing you about oversteer, 'cause
that's all that seems to happen.

>I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
>come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
>about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
>them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

>Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
>fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
>and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
>driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>Epping road.

>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
>174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
>to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
>me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
>that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
>a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
>strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
>esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
>left corner.

>I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
>ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
>run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
>which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
>and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
>more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
>make L-Platers give this a go.

>T.



Douglas Elliso

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Douglas Elliso » Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I think it's wrong to asume that juping in a real car beats the sim.  I was
driving a friends Caterham 7 (those in the US may not know of these cars -
they're a modern incarnation of the Lotus 7) at around 105 mph down a
favorite road of mine (the one that goes straight past the front door of
Princess Anne's place at Gatcombe - there's a mini Eau-Rouge there!!) when a
slight wet patch under some trees sent us into a *** spin. Now I race
FF1600 fairly regularly, and consider myself a good driver, however, this
was something that was unavoidable, and luckily we escaped injury, as we
only ended up getting dumped a little wide into the grass.  However - the
car took s alittle repair (only cosmetics).  However -it could easily have
been a lot worse, and we could have been a) Inured, b) Killed, c) Hit
another car, d) written of the Caterham.

I was also playing GPL a few night ago, in the F3 car (similar to FF1600,
for those who might know, don't you think??) at Brands Hatch, and dumped it
a BEAUTY through old paddock - tonked into the outside wall (a-la Derek Hill
in Formula Palmer Audi) and then got up to make coffee.

Sim's don't kill you, and they certainly don't cost money to repair.

Fast driving should be on a track, or on your computer.

Speed CAN kill.

Doug


>I couldn't agree more.
>I was (and still am) a keen player of Indycar racing (the originial, about
>1994). I beleive it is very good on teacheing you about oversteer, 'cause
>that's all that seems to happen.


>>I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
>>come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
>>about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
>>them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

>>Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
>>fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
>>and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
>>driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
>>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>>Epping road.

>>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
>>174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
>>to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
>>me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
>>that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
>>a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
>>strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
>>esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
>>left corner.

>>I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
>>ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
>>run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
>>which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
>>and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
>>more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
>>make L-Platers give this a go.

>>T.



Neil Rain

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Neil Rain » Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:00:00


> I think it's wrong to asume that juping in a real car beats the sim.  I was
> driving a friends Caterham 7 (those in the US may not know of these cars -
> they're a modern incarnation of the Lotus 7) at around 105 mph down a
> favorite road of mine (the one that goes straight past the front door of
> Princess Anne's place at Gatcombe - there's a mini Eau-Rouge there!!) when a
> slight wet patch under some trees sent us into a *** spin. Now I race
> FF1600 fairly regularly, and consider myself a good driver, however, this
> was something that was unavoidable, and luckily we escaped injury, as we
> only ended up getting dumped a little wide into the grass.  However - the
> car took s alittle repair (only cosmetics).  However -it could easily have
> been a lot worse, and we could have been a) Inured, b) Killed, c) Hit
> another car, d) written of the Caterham.

> I was also playing GPL a few night ago, in the F3 car (similar to FF1600,
> for those who might know, don't you think??) at Brands Hatch, and dumped it
> a BEAUTY through old paddock - tonked into the outside wall (a-la Derek Hill
> in Formula Palmer Audi) and then got up to make coffee.

> Sim's don't kill you, and they certainly don't cost money to repair.

> Fast driving should be on a track, or on your computer.

> Speed CAN kill.

I heard on the radio yesterday that three-day eventing (cross-country
horse-riding) is now officially the second most dangerous mainstream
sport, after - guess what - motor racing!

Having said that, I seem to remember that cave-diving is pretty
dangerous - there's a wastage factor of 50% (ie. half the people doing
it die every year).

Douglas Elliso

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Douglas Elliso » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

See - See, I was right...it's a sillt game anyway, going AROUND, and AROUND
in ever decreasing twisty circles.  Well, actually, it may be silly, but
it's fun
Doug
Uwe Schuerka

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Uwe Schuerka » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Hi Toni!


I think I recall Dave Kaemmer calling any lap on the ring under 10 minutes a
"good performance". I'm struggling with the 9 min barrier in the Brabham at
the moment, and some of the times on the net are just unbelievable.

Make sure you take it easy on the ring: a single spin will cost you more
time than taking three to four corners slower, but therefore safer and not
going off into the woods.

To quote Jackie Stewart's opinion on the ring: "My opponents see
it at 174 corners, I look at it as 174 possibilities to be faster
than them." ;-)

Regards,

Uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Herford, Germany (52.0N/8h30mE)
Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://www.racesimcentral.net/
PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe Schuerka

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Uwe Schuerka » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00


>I heard on the radio yesterday that three-day eventing (cross-country
>horse-riding) is now officially the second most dangerous mainstream
>sport, after - guess what - motor racing!

Were they on about the horses or the riders? Far more horses get
killed in those "events" than the occasional rider (which is
sort of unfair, all things considered).

Regards,

Uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany (52.0N/8h30mE)
Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/
PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Richard G Cleg

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Richard G Cleg » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00


:>I heard on the radio yesterday that three-day eventing (cross-country
:>horse-riding) is now officially the second most dangerous mainstream
:>sport, after - guess what - motor racing!

: Were they on about the horses or the riders? Far more horses get
: killed in those "events" than the occasional rider (which is
: sort of unfair, all things considered).

  Sure - but you should see the stats for horses driving in motor-races.
Now that's dangerous :-)

--
Richard G. Clegg     Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Sam Seni

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Sam Seni » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:35:45 +0159,


>Hi Toni!


>>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>>Epping road.

>>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the

>I think I recall Dave Kaemmer calling any lap on the ring under 10 minutes a
>"good performance". I'm struggling with the 9 min barrier in the Brabham at
>the moment, and some of the times on the net are just unbelievable.

>Make sure you take it easy on the ring: a single spin will cost you more
>time than taking three to four corners slower, but therefore safer and not
>going off into the woods.

>To quote Jackie Stewart's opinion on the ring: "My opponents see
>it at 174 corners, I look at it as 174 possibilities to be faster
>than them." ;-)

My personal rules for the ring:
Don't push or try to make time on the slow turns, where the revs are
up and the gear is low. Take note of the places you lose it, and learn
not to repeat. Use lower gears uphill than it appears to want. Apply a
little throttle just before takeoff on the jumps. Follow the gray
lines where it's helpful, but sometimes you will be too wide. You
usually find that it's the same places each time where you***up.
Then go slower there. Use Allison's setups. I'm doing 8:37's, but I
can see I'm too careful in some places, so I could go faster. Most of
my errors are in 2nd gear turns. For what it's worth. Sam
Jacvil

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Jacvil » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Geez, I thought all 174 turns were 2nd gear turns! <g>


Pete

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Pete » Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I find that they help with response times and learning to pick half decent
lines but, IMHO, they offer no real feedback i.e you get the visual and some
poor replica via a force feed back wheel and the sound is OK but the
vibration, g force and general feel are not their i.e you know the brakes have
locked when the tyres squeal not by the sudden loss of braking effort.

P!


>I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
>come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
>about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
>them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

>Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
>fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
>and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
>driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>Epping road.

>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
>174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
>to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
>me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
>that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
>a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
>strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
>esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
>left corner.

>I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
>ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
>run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
>which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
>and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
>more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
>make L-Platers give this a go.

>T.



The Gardner

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by The Gardner » Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:00:00

That's why you get your brothers or friends in on it and take turns holding
the chair up!

Knock the legs off a chair and nail two sets of 2x4s to the bottom and have
them protrude about four feet from either side. You'll need two people to
help you with the chair movements. ;)

Al Gardner


>I find that they help with response times and learning to pick half decent
>lines but, IMHO, they offer no real feedback i.e you get the visual and
some
>poor replica via a force feed back wheel and the sound is OK but the
>vibration, g force and general feel are not their i.e you know the brakes
have
>locked when the tyres squeal not by the sudden loss of braking effort.

>P!


>>I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
>>come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
>>about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
>>them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

>>Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
>>fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
>>and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
>>driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
>>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>>Epping road.

>>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
>>174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
>>to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
>>me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
>>that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
>>a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
>>strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
>>esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
>>left corner.

>>I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
>>ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
>>run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
>>which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
>>and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
>>more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
>>make L-Platers give this a go.

>>T.



Jamie A. Howel

How Grand Prix Legends has improved my driving...

by Jamie A. Howel » Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Ok, since we're having such a intelligent conversation, I was wondering
which everyones (well those who have played it) favourite character
from N64 Mario Kart is?

I like Donkey Kong the best, the handling is just brilliant :) With the
added bonus of being able to ram the small lighter guys off the road.


> That's why you get your brothers or friends in on it and take turns holding
> the chair up!
> Knock the legs off a chair and nail two sets of 2x4s to the bottom and have
> them protrude about four feet from either side. You'll need two people to
> help you with the chair movements. ;)
> Al Gardner

>>I find that they help with response times and learning to pick half decent
>>lines but, IMHO, they offer no real feedback i.e you get the visual and
> some
>>poor replica via a force feed back wheel and the sound is OK but the
>>vibration, g force and general feel are not their i.e you know the brakes
> have
>>locked when the tyres squeal not by the sudden loss of braking effort.

>>P!


>>>I know this is a fairly controversial topic. Others have
>>>come onto the driving orientated n/g's and spouted off
>>>about how their little stints on Gran Turismo has helped
>>>them become one with their risotto-mobiles.

>>>Well I've been hard at GPL for quite some time. I use a
>>>fastish PC (Celeron 464Mhz + Voodoo2 12Mb SLI + Thrustmaster T2)
>>>and GPL is much, *much* harder to drive than any real car I've
>>>driven. Admittedly I've only ever driven v8 sedans of both types,
>>>a Porsche 911 once and some hi-po Japanese coupes; hardly really ***.
>>>GPL demands more of my brain matter than a swift cruise on
>>>Epping road.

>>>Nurburgring is a concentration puzzle; all 9 - 12 minutes
>>>of it, esp. at the wheel of a loose-as-goose Ferrari 312.
>>>8:45 is a dream as far as I can drive.

>>>I can do it just under 10 minutes which is a miracle of
>>>45 minutes of staring at the tube wondering which of the
>>>174 corners I'm taking right now. 45 minutes is equal
>>>to about 4 laps btw of which only *one* of which would do
>>>me proud. The others would be 12+ minute snoozers. Saying
>>>that, even slowish 10-11 minute drives on the 'ring are
>>>a lot of fun. A whole bunch of 2-3-4'th gear corners
>>>strung together. And the long end straight is wonderful
>>>esp. how you have to lift of in top to make that gentle
>>>left corner.

>>>I look really long down roads and plan two or three corners
>>>ahead. I take some hazy corners very carefully looking for a
>>>run off area. Basically I think before I dive into a corner
>>>which is not how I used to do it before. This occurs in GPL
>>>and in real life. A game about 1967 F1 cars has made me a
>>>more careful driver in real life. Amazing. They should
>>>make L-Platers give this a go.

>>>T.



--
Jamie Howell

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~jamie/

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