rec.autos.simulators

        How many people out there are actually serious about having a
newsgroup devoted strictly to NASCAR Racing simulation topics?  With
NASCAR 2 and the NRL looming in the future, it would definitely cut
down on the clutter in this newsgroup.  
        First, a decision needs to be made as to whether a separate newsgroup
should be for a particular series (NASCAR in this case) or more a
general category of racing (closed***pit as opposed to open wheel
racing)
        Second, somebody needs to find out how to get a project like this
rolling, assuming there is enough interest to warrant the creation of
a new newsgroup.  I have no idea how to do this, nor where to find
information about creating a newsgroup.  
        Note:  I'm not trying to assume a 'leader' role in this situation.
I've read multiple articles on the subject, so I know some people that
frequent this newsgroup may be into this suggestion (which was not
originated by me).  If you are NOT interested in this new newsgroup
idea, there is no point in responding to this article.  Ditto if you
are not into the NASCAR side of simulated racing.

        I can't WAIT to see what comes of this posting.

Kyle Langston

Well, I am not sure about anybody else out there, but I am a fan of
Simulated Auto Racing.  That includes Indycar NASCAR & F1 and anything
else that may come down the pike.  (Great idea a Pike's Peak Challenge
simulation!)

I kinda like having all of the topics in one box.  That's one of the
reasons we have Subject Headings.  So one can choose what to read and
what not to read.  If people are wise and preface the subject with the
sim's Keyword (Hawaii, NASCAR, ICR2, GP2) one can easily choose what to
read and what not to read.  

If someone wants to talk about converted tracks from NASCAR to ICR2,
does this go in the NASCAR newsgroup or the ICR2 newsgroup?  Right, one
can cross-post.  Well, then we'll have people in one group saying that
doesn't belong here....   Yadda Yadda Yadda

My vote is keep it all together.  It will calm down again.  Then again
it will all SPIKE again when NASCAR2 comes out, then it will die down
again, and then it will SPIKE again when the promised GP2 patch never
arrives, then it die down again, then it will SPIKE when NRL is up 'n
runnin', then it will .....

Go with the flow/rhythm & relax!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

[snip]

The article was addressed to those interested in only NASCAR Racing.

If you're talking about tracks converted from NASCAR for ICR2 use,
that would only be of interest to ICR2 owners. Right?  NASCAR owners
would already have the tracks.  And vice versa.  How can you predict
that someone would complain about an article that is reasonably
specific to both NASCAR Racing and ICR2?

rec.autos.simulators newsgroup will always be here.  If people want to
reach EVERYONE that races any kind of simulation, than they can post
it here, or cross post to the NASCAR newsgroup and the
rec.autos.simulators newsgroup.  What's the big deal?

Kyle Langston

I like the ability to look in one group to find all the info in one place.

What happens once you start your r.a.s.nascar group, since I can't afford
hawaii, do I go on there and say hey guys all this hawaii ***is
cluttering up the group, you need to start r.a.s.nascar.hawaii

Also I am looking forward to the possibility of a hawaii for ICR2, which
group would I now have to check ? the nascar group? openwheel group? misc
group? hawaii group?

Well you see where I am going here. Once you start dividing the group,
where will it stop? Open wheel, closed wheel, open***pit, closed
***pit, on road, off road, realistic sim, arcadish sim, and even games
like Big Red Racing which fit many of these categories.

And you do know that new groups do not get automatically added to every news
provider, some of us have to ask the news administrators to do this and the
matter is at their discretion.

Eventually this newsgroup will again die down a bit until the next
NEW gotta-havit release and according to some dates that will be Nascar2.
All it takes is a bit of patience from all of us and things can stay nice
and simple without having to wade through a bunch of groups jut to find
the great info we get here.

Well there's my .02 worth.
Cheers.

--John
--
-------------------
  John (Joao) Silva
  http://www.racesimcentral.net/~jsilva
  Seattle, Washington USA.

I vote YES to rec.auto.simulators.nascar
Reason: If there are groups for each type of racing there will be less
clutter.And if someone likes em' all they can just subscribe to em' all..
Easy as pie :) *notice it's almost dinner time*
Mick

Well,
Since my server was screwed up again I didn't know Tony had already
started the process so please ignore my post about offering to go
through the process myself.

   ***********************************************
  **  Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down   **
 ***          Ron "Cougar" Riekens II            ***
****              Owner - Driver                 ****
**** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography ****
 ***         NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac        ***

   ***********************************************

Kyle Langston

Check out Ed Martin's contribution to the Re:
rec.autos.simulators.nascar thread.  He's behind it 100%, and he
provided very good reasons why.

Kyle Langston

Ron R II

   ***********************************************
  **  Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down   **
 ***          Ron "Cougar" Riekens II            ***
****              Owner - Driver                 ****
**** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography ****
 ***         NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac        ***

   ***********************************************

   While I don't have the specific proceedure, I've always heard that
creating a new (non-ALT) news group is a major pain in the butt.  A
formal proposal, comment period, voting (both majority and a minimum
of 100 positive votes required), and hoping the group gets propigated
across the net. (NOTE: those are not exact numbers/procedures, but
just what I remember.)  You can create a new ALT group more easily,
but propigation is all the more difficult.  For more answers try
news.answers or the news.admin.* or news.groups.* hierarchies.

   For myself, I think its unwise to split r.a.s. or add sub-segments
such as r.a.s.nascar.  The traffic is not that bad, there is sufficient
common interest between the different factions.  I think its short-
sighted to start new newsgroups based on a particular sim, which is
subject to the whims of consumer popularity and publisher support.
Assuming, heaven forbid, NASCAR pulls out and Sierra/Papyrus pulls the
plug on Hawaii?  What's the point of a separate newsgroup for Hawaii
then?  Or when do we create a newsgroup for Visiware's F1 sim?

   Well, you didn't want to hear any of this, but there it is.  ;)

PS - I see that Tony Johns has started the ball rolling on this, so
     you don't have to worry about doing the work and we'll all see
     how it turns out based on the votes of *everyone* in r.a.s.

Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) /
Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

You wanna see clutter?  Wait until you see all the cross-posting! I would love
to have separate groups for each type of racing, but until cross-posting is
banned, it will be a big mess. Redundancy is prevelant wherever there are
similar groups.

My two cents.

Regards,
Terry

Again I return to the coincidence that while there was mostly Hawaii and
Nascar2 threads going on here you guys did not mind it, now that those
subjects have taken a bit of a background position, now all of a sudden
there is this supposed "NEED" to break the group up.

I was one of the original supporters of creating r.a.s back when we used
to discuss auto sims on com.sys.ibm.pc.games.action and at that time there
sure was a need for a specific group.

When the NRL really exists and if then there is a large amount of traffic
in this group, I would be a full supporter of splitting. For now, I say
it is not needed.

This does indeed look a bit like a situation as Michael suggests of a
elitist attitude some people are taking, and they want to make it difficult
on everyone just to simplify their own personal needs. A kill file with
ICR2, NFS and GP2 in it would probably solve the problem for many of you.

Can't we all just get along?  :^)

Cheers.

--John
--
-------------------
  John (Joao) Silva
  http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jsilva
  Seattle, Washington USA.

: >   I had to read your message a few times to try to make sense of
: >it.  What the hell is the point of taking a survey of only positive
: >responses?  If you get ten yes's you'll go ahead, even if there were
: >100 no's?!?  

: Well, that's an exaggerated case. I think there will be a lot more
: positive response compared to the negative.  Even Ed Martin feels it's
: a good idea.

I admire Ed Martin ALOT!  But that doesn't mean I have to agree with
him.  It doesn't mean he's Moses delivering the sacred tablets?  I don't
even want to see him "forced" out of contributing to r.a.s.

So, what's your point?

The article was addressed to people that are into NASCAR Racing
strictly.

Clutter isn't the main reason for starting up a separate newsgroup.
When the NRL is launched, I'm fairly sure constant messages involving
that league will be posted SOMEWHERE.

If there was not a separate group for ICR2, you'd check this
newsgroup.  

I'm talking about starting up a newsgroup with a slightly more
specific interest.  The whole group (rec.autos.simulators) doesn't
need to be divided.  If enough NASCAR racers would enjoy having a
separate newsgroup, than what's the big deal?  If the ICR2 drivers,
the GP2 drivers, etc, don't want a separate newsgroup, than that's OK.

Well, I consider that a part of getting a newsgroup started.  

That is not the point!

Kyle Langston

I suggested a NASCAR-specific group just the other day.  It had nothing to
do with issues of influence, because I have NO influence here.  I just
don't want to sift through dozens of messages about other simulators.
Everyone deserves a forum for their interests, but this newsgroup is being
overwhelmed, as more products hit the market.  I use NASCAR Racing
exclusively, so it would be nice to have a NASCAR-specific newsgroup.  I
support having specific newsgroups for EACH racing simulation.

Kirn Cromur