rec.autos.simulators

by **David J. Ran** » Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:00:00

(SNIP)

Not to nitpick, but I do believe you were rather rude in the "Are we
Nuts thread". I don't have the article, but I believe your response to
a convention in Boston was " Great more load on the servers". Instead
of thinking about it, you couldn't wait to flame me and push "send".
This has no bearing on whether or not r.a.s.nascar comes about, but
better wording and contemplation before flaming someone would be
appreciated.

David Range

by **Michael E. Carv** » Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:00:00

: On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:19:16 -0500, "Thomas E. Retkowski"

: >Tony Johns didn't start the ball rolling, I did...I've asked for his
: >assistance in the matter.

: I hate to contradict you, because it makes me look like I'm
: self-glorifying and vain, but the RFD for this newsgroup split has
: been in the works for a month, per discussions with Ed Martin and
: others regarding moderated and specialized newsgroups. Your effort
: and my effort are completely unconnected, as, I'm assuming, you are
: simply calling for the creation of a rec.autos.simulators.nascar group
: and the formal RFD calls for a three-way newsgroup reorganization.

I can vouch for this. Tony's only concern is in bettering the situation
that has developed recently here at r.a.s. We are on the threshold of
losing what I consider to be extremely valuable assests to our love
(auto simulators). Ed and the other Papyrus employees who have been
gracious enough to visit here and impart their wisdom and assistance
feel that they have been abused. I can understand their feelings (and I
am sure at times they have probably felt I was one of the abusers --
though that was never my intention.) Tony has been quitely working in
the background discussing this very issue with some key people who have
contributed alot to making r.a.s. what it is.

While I may disagree with the "solution" Tony and Ed support, it in no
way means I don't whole heartedly support their cause to provide for a
safe forum for representives of the software companies and for the
hardworking "***rs" to continue to participate in.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **moti..** » Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:00:00

cool idea seeing that im just looking for nascar info which sometimes is
hard looking through 200 when is gp2 going to be realesed messages.

by **John Wallac** » Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:00:00

That's the second time I saw that in one of your posts - does that mean
that anyone who drives something else is somehow not a true NASCAR fan?

I drive all of the sims, and many of the people over on CompuServe drive
all three, includingthe league commisioners of the NASCAR series. Just
because someone happens to enjoy driving sims other than NASCAR doesn't
mean they don't have an opinion about a new group. You're talking of
moving information of which I am a reader equally as much as you are,
and therefore I have an equal say in what happens to it, as do all other
users of this newsgroup.

Cheers!
John

_________________________________
__ _____| |_____ __
________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________

\ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | /
> :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | <
/ :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \
/______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\
http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

by **Double Clut** » Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:00

says...

[much snipped]

If the RFD goes through the way it's written, r.a.s as a single group will
cease to exist. So David is just stating a FACT. It doesn't make much sense to
create one new offshoot group and leave the original in place. The purpose of
creating a new group is to split the existing one into two or more subtopics.
Everyone will have a place to go.

With smaller groups come more repeated questions and less people willing to
answer them. I hope some of us are willing to become FAQkeepers so newbies
don't get scared off. Just a thought.

by **Richard Sob** » Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>What's so complicated about following multiple groups, if I may ask?
>It would be like r.a.s. with convenient 'divider folders' for each
>form of racing. For example, wouldn't r.a.s be even easier to follow
>if all the GP2 articles were at the top, followed by the ICR2 articles
>in the middle, followed by the NASCAR articles at the bottom? I feel
>this would be true.
>Kyle Langston

I agree - what would be so bad to have a separate group for each sim?

Has anyone ever looked at rec.games.computer.quake.<one of 5 different
groupd here>?? This is one game that has no less than 5 different
groups devoted to it. And here we are devoting one group to (near
enough) 5 different sims. Not everyone likes Nascar, or ICR2, or GP2,
etc etc, so I think it makes perfect sense for the group to split.
There would also be hell of a lot less traffic in r.a.s (which could,
possibly, be used as a general discussion group, for people who like
T2's <g>).

I go with the idea.
Richard Sobey

by **Sami Nurme** » Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> How many people out there are actually serious about having a
>newsgroup devoted strictly to NASCAR Racing simulation topics? With
>NASCAR 2 and the NRL looming in the future, it would definitely cut
>down on the clutter in this newsgroup.

Sure hope there is enough of Nascar fans to keep a new group alive. A
moderate-size group split in several small-audience groups may well
lead to slow death of them all. The groups need enough traffic to keep
the discussion going on even when nothing new really happens.

splits; both successful and failed.

by **G. Warren Ab** » Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:00

The only hassle about following r.a.s.* groups is the amount of cross-posting
that will occur will result in folks seeing duplicate messages in all of the
newsgroups. That's not a big deal for me, since my news server doesn't charge
by the minute, but I guess those that download Usenet messages into their
newsreader from a news server that charges by the minute may see an extension
in their daily download time.

by **Jeff Vince** » Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>Exactly what could be cross-posted to all the groups that would
>actually be VALID to the subject area of each group? If some moron
>(I'm not referring to you :-) ) wants to crosspost an article to all
>the r.a.s. newsgroups about his latest experience with GP2, then
>that's his problem (and everyone else's, I suppose) I don't feel the
>situation will be as bad as you might think.

If you create *only* r.a.s.nascar, you'll probably find a fair
number of NASCAR posters posting to *both* groups. You'll have your
nice little self-contained world in r.a.s.n, but the rest of us will
have to deal with the cross-posts from r.a.s.n. (which means we'll
get only part of the info from the nascar group, but may end up
reading it a second time in r.a.s.n.).

If r.a.s. gets split, the proper way to do it (IMO) is:
r.a.s.misc,
r.a.s.f1,
r.a.s.indy, and
r.a.s.nascar.

The r.a.s.misc will be *clearly* for posts that don't belong in
the other three groups. Leaving r.a.s. as is is an open invitation
to rampant cross-posting. Killing one group and creating four new
ones will have network propigation difficulties at first, but it is
the right way to do it in the long term (assuming we decide to do
so).

Pick one or more: Model Rockets (competition-NERCB) / PCs (even Atari!) /
Papyrus ICR-ICR2-NCR / Who needs a life when you have multiple non-lives?

by **Kyle Langst** » Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>>What's so complicated about following multiple groups, if I may ask?
>>It would be like r.a.s. with convenient 'divider folders' for each
>>form of racing. For example, wouldn't r.a.s be even easier to follow
>>if all the GP2 articles were at the top, followed by the ICR2 articles
>>in the middle, followed by the NASCAR articles at the bottom? I feel
>>this would be true.
>The only hassle about following r.a.s.* groups is the amount of cross-posting
>that will occur will result in folks seeing duplicate messages in all of the
>newsgroups. That's not a big deal for me, since my news server doesn't charge
>by the minute, but I guess those that download Usenet messages into their
>newsreader from a news server that charges by the minute may see an extension
>in their daily download time.
>G. Warren Abao

Please explain how this cross posting to the multiple groups will be
inevitable.

Kyle Langston

by **David Burto** » Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:00

Attention Hawaii league Administrators,

I have devoted a part of my web page to posting Hawaii league racing
results and would be happy to post your league results also. I am
even posting some pics and captions if they are exciting!!
Help me out by sending your league results and or point standings.
Come on, let the drivers in your league get some exposure!! If your
league has a logo, send it too!!

Thank-you

vetteracer
Vetteracer's Garage
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1726

by **Michael E. Carv** » Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:00

: Please explain how this cross posting to the multiple groups will be
: inevitable.

Kyle, what will you accept? It appears that you know all there is to
know. It would appear that there isn't anything anyone can say that you
don't have a snappy response to.

But, since you asked, the answer is EXPERIENCE! How long have you been
a USENET follower? How many newsgroups have you followed for long
periods of time? Maybe your version of usenet resides in some parallel
universe to the one our's resides ;-)

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Kyle Langst** » Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>: Please explain how this cross posting to the multiple groups will be
>: inevitable.
>Kyle, what will you accept? It appears that you know all there is to
>know. It would appear that there isn't anything anyone can say that you
>don't have a snappy response to.
>But, since you asked, the answer is EXPERIENCE! How long have you been
>a USENET follower? How many newsgroups have you followed for long
>periods of time? Maybe your version of usenet resides in some parallel
>universe to the one our's resides ;-)
>--
>**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************

So I ask for an explanation and what do I get? Some sarcastic
response as to what my view of newsgroups apparently is. No, I
haven't been a USENET follower for years. That's why I asked the damn
question. I don't think years of experience is required to be a part
of this debate. If I need an explanation of the other side's
argument, then I ask for it. And if I believed I knew all there was
to know, WHY would I ask ANY question?
I don't see how crossposting would be so inevitable with separate
groups. If someone wants to let all the GP2ers about the latest patch
to Grand Prix II, for example, they post to the F1 group. If one of
the people behind the Sim Racing News website wants to post about the
addition of the latest issue to their site, then crossposting to all
the r.a.s.? groups would be appropriate, since their net mag covers
all racing series and simulations. I guess it boils down to common
sense. Am I to assume that besides you and a select few, USENET
posters have little or no common sense? Ok, so maybe that's a little
sarcastic, but you see my point. Right?
Once again, please explain how crossposting would be inevitable AND
frequent enough to pose a problem worthy of any concern.

Kyle Langston

by **Ron R.** » Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:00:00

>>The only hassle about following r.a.s.* groups is the amount of cross-posting
>>that will occur will result in folks seeing duplicate messages in all of the
>>newsgroups. That's not a big deal for me, since my news server doesn't charge
>>by the minute, but I guess those that download Usenet messages into their
>>newsreader from a news server that charges by the minute may see an extension
>>in their daily download time.
>>G. Warren Abao
> Please explain how this cross posting to the multiple groups will be
>inevitable.
>Kyle Langston

Heh, well, if you really want to get an idea of what could happen then
go do like I did when first started surfin the net (as I have no doubt
lots of people do) Go to the full groups list and subscribe to oh say
5-6 of the varies alt.binaries.pictures.***a groups. Make 3-4 of
them of slightly similar topics (much like multiple auto sim topics
would be) and the rest on different topics than those. Still in the
a.b.p.e. area. Now given about a week, not necessary to d/l anything
from groups, watch and see how many crossposts you can count.
Do this and I think you'll get the picture :) Uh, no pun intended.
Ron R II

***********************************************
** Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down **
*** Ron "Cougar" Riekens II ***
**** Owner - Driver ****
**** Medallion Motorsports/*** Photography ****
*** NASS ARCA Series #96 Pontiac ***

***********************************************

by **Tim Chow** » Fri, 26 Jul 1996 04:00:00

> >>What's so complicated about following multiple groups, if I may ask?
> >>It would be like r.a.s. with convenient 'divider folders' for each
> >>form of racing. For example, wouldn't r.a.s be even easier to follow
> >>if all the GP2 articles were at the top, followed by the ICR2 articles
> >>in the middle, followed by the NASCAR articles at the bottom? I feel
> >>this would be true.

This group should be split by theme, not game name, then it's future
proof , eg.

rec.autos.simulators.f1
rec.autos.simulators.indycar
rec.autos.simulators.nascar and
rec.autos.simulators.misc for the rest.

The current volume is crazy (400+ posts a day here) though obviously
a lot of that is due to the release of F1GP2 :-)

Is anyone going ahead with the "proper" usenet voting process?

--
Tim Chown | GD Review http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview

rec.autos.simulators

Starting a NASCAR-specific newsgroup

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