rec.autos.simulators

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

Jess

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Jess » Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:18:32

I am trying to grasp why Gran Turismo Has only gone development for
PlayStation other than a small demo I saw once.
Do the game makers really know what this game is worth on a pc?
Are they there for the Brand or the dollars ? Dollars

With the extensive realism this game placed on a little playstation what
lyes on the PC or Personal Computer is
Far more beyound the comprehension or this little kids toy with bad
graphics(good in the day).

Gran Turismo is a one and only in its class until the realism of Operation
FlashPoint lurked.

What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could fetch
up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a fraction
better.

Really you cannot ever compare any game to the first Gran Turismo with the
others following simply because it had to live up to its fans who would
purchase the next game wether it was really all there or not.(even though
the graphics sucked and the cars all handled the same with a drif spirit in
them all)

-----------------------------------------------------
Just annother Programmer Spinning Out

Jussi 'Igor' Koukk

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Jussi 'Igor' Koukk » Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:22:21


something like this:

I guess it's my turn: GT is nice, but It's no GPL...... <g>
Besides, there's no***pit view in GT. And the physics of the cars in
OFP weren't exactly realistic, although they had cocpit views...
--
- Igor -

Kevin Clar

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Kevin Clar » Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:02:23


> I am trying to grasp why Gran Turismo Has only gone development for
> PlayStation other than a small demo I saw once.
> Do the game makers really know what this game is worth on a pc?
> Are they there for the Brand or the dollars ? Dollars

Because it's made (sort of) by Sony and thus is one of the biggest
reasons for people to buy a playstaion in the first place. If you make
it for the PC you'll see far fewer playstations. It's a killer app. A
game that you go and buy a console just so you can play it.
Lawman_027

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Lawman_027 » Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:07:53


> I am trying to grasp why Gran Turismo Has only gone development for
> PlayStation other than a small demo I saw once.
> Do the game makers really know what this game is worth on a pc?
> Are they there for the Brand or the dollars ? Dollars

> With the extensive realism this game placed on a little playstation what
> lyes on the PC or Personal Computer is
> Far more beyound the comprehension or this little kids toy with bad
> graphics(good in the day).

> Gran Turismo is a one and only in its class until the realism of Operation
> FlashPoint lurked.

> What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could fetch
> up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a fraction
> better.

> Really you cannot ever compare any game to the first Gran Turismo with the
> others following simply because it had to live up to its fans who would
> purchase the next game wether it was really all there or not.(even though
> the graphics sucked and the cars all handled the same with a drif spirit in
> them all)

> -----------------------------------------------------
> Just annother Programmer Spinning Out

I would have agreed that SOMEONE needed to come out with GT (or GT3,
specifically) for the PC, at least until GTR2002 was unveiled. The was
a real lacking in the sports car sim market , IMHO, and only NFS:PU
came close, but wasn't really "racing". It was more like "on the road"
rallying.

GTR2002 fills that void and I still cannot fathom how ISI/EA doesn't
snatch up the lads at SBDT and put the at the top of the payroll. If
they could solve the issue with the graphics, i.e. looking like
cartoons, (and that has nothing to do with SBDT) this would be an all
time great. Comparisons to GPL are well deserved as each car has a
personality and it takes time to learn each one. While perhaps the
expansion of GTR2002 is limited, as the team is already talking of
GTR2003, GTR2002 will be on my HD for quite a while and I will
nominate it for "Prince of All Sims".

Lawman

rrevve

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by rrevve » Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:40:16


>these PC titles if produced right could fetch
>up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a fraction
>better.

Doubtful.
Todd Walke

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Todd Walke » Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:13:51



We DON'T want them to do that. Although Doug and company probably
wouldn't mind ;-)

--
__________________________
Todd Walker
http://twalker.d2g.com
__________________________

Tim

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Tim » Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:55:42


>What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could fetch
>up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a fraction
>better.

If by "produced right" you mean a *** delivers it and lets you
splooge all over her face before she leaves, then I agree.
Other than that, even $100 is on the outer fringes of the toy
simulations discussed here.

Not a slam on racing games, I love them, but I also acknowledge that
they are just that -games.

Jess

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Jess » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 05:00:44

Toy Simulators---Where can I get a not toy simulator?Is a simulator a game?
or Software

Also Im sure that mid season of the first Gran Turismo release some people
would have been more than happy to fork out big bucks.
I have quite a  friends(never used a computer before) even queryed playing
computer games and purchasing a playstation duing the first months of this
release.

Games ? Gran Turismo 1 went futher than just a game Gran Turimo 2 -3 are
games.
I built(Yes Built No mechanics can go near illegal gear ratio's) a Mazda RX4
(RealOne)to beat most modern modern cars using the gear ratio's calculated
from GranTurismo as an easy way of testing a thousand combinations of weight
to power ,although the car is illegal is annother story but the specs worked
out within 10th of a sec  right.
(no I dont play Gran Turismo any More)

I am very confused as to what is GPL (is this a Software liecence?)

Also what is GTR2002? (is this an Addon for F1 2002 which converts it to a
GT ?)
Also which F1 2002 ? (EA Ubi)

Why isn't GTR2002 making headlines like americasarmy.com with popular game
sites?

----------------------------------------------------
Just annother Programmer spewing all over the floor



> >What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could
fetch
> >up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a fraction
> >better.

> If by "produced right" you mean a *** delivers it and lets you
> splooge all over her face before she leaves, then I agree.
> Other than that, even $100 is on the outer fringes of the toy
> simulations discussed here.

> Not a slam on racing games, I love them, but I also acknowledge that
> they are just that -games.

Dan Leac

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Dan Leac » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 05:17:59

GPL is the greatest single peice of software ever created and after 4 yrs is
still probly the best game ever for racing (at least round proper tracks :).
IMO (having only played gt1/2/3 on consoles)gpl is about...2 million times
better.
  dan

> Toy Simulators---Where can I get a not toy simulator?Is a simulator a
game?
> or Software

> Also Im sure that mid season of the first Gran Turismo release some people
> would have been more than happy to fork out big bucks.
> I have quite a  friends(never used a computer before) even queryed playing
> computer games and purchasing a playstation duing the first months of this
> release.

> Games ? Gran Turismo 1 went futher than just a game Gran Turimo 2 -3 are
> games.
> I built(Yes Built No mechanics can go near illegal gear ratio's) a Mazda
RX4
> (RealOne)to beat most modern modern cars using the gear ratio's calculated
> from GranTurismo as an easy way of testing a thousand combinations of
weight
> to power ,although the car is illegal is annother story but the specs
worked
> out within 10th of a sec  right.
> (no I dont play Gran Turismo any More)

> I am very confused as to what is GPL (is this a Software liecence?)

> Also what is GTR2002? (is this an Addon for F1 2002 which converts it to a
> GT ?)
> Also which F1 2002 ? (EA Ubi)

> Why isn't GTR2002 making headlines like americasarmy.com with popular game
> sites?

> ----------------------------------------------------
> Just annother Programmer spewing all over the floor




> > >What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could
> fetch
> > >up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a
fraction
> > >better.

> > If by "produced right" you mean a *** delivers it and lets you
> > splooge all over her face before she leaves, then I agree.
> > Other than that, even $100 is on the outer fringes of the toy
> > simulations discussed here.

> > Not a slam on racing games, I love them, but I also acknowledge that
> > they are just that -games.

Jan Verschuere

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Jan Verschuere » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 07:33:59

A simulation is a simulation, both the game and the simulation are software
by default.

Surprising result to say the least.

It's short for GNU Public Licence, yes. However, on this forum, GPL refers
to Grand Prix Legends by Papyrus, the most sofisticated mass market real
time simulation on the PC four years ago and still in the top 6, IMO.
www.papy.com and countless other sites offer more information than you will
ever care to know. Features, along with NR2002, the best internet
multiplayer code of any racing game in my experience.

GTR2002 takes EA's F1 2002, which wasn't all that bad in it's own right (on
the PC) and lifts it to a higher level. A much, *much* higher level. The
"amateur" (i.e. they didn't get payed for it, otherwise each of them is a
Pro in my book) mod squad at www.simmods.com have, IMO, outdone both ISI
(team behind EA F1 2002 PC version) and Papyrus (kings of the hill until
recently) in the single player experience.

I think there is a slight discrepancy in the amount of funding and PR behind
the respective efforts. <g>

Jan.
=---

Tim

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Tim » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 07:41:11

[snip]

Try these for starters -"get" being a relative term.

http://www.inrets.fr/ur/sara/Pg_simus_e.html
http://www.simulatorsystems.com/
http://www.careflight.org/Bell_Simulator_Training.htm
http://www.faros.com/english/auto/index.htm
http://www.ascent-uk.co.uk/index.html
http://www.weaverling.org/atc/sim/
http://www.es.com/solutions/driving+training/index.asp
http://www.mi.mun.ca/mi/cms/facilities.htm
http://www.danmar.dk/services/courses/courses_main.htm
http://www.siskiyous.edu/vocationaleducation/driving/
http://www.hctsc.org/
http://www.pttinc.com/classroom.htm
http://www.ascilite.org.au/ajet/ajet9/gatto.html
http://redrock.ncsa.uiuc.edu/PATHFINDER/aisrp93/storm_research/tornad...

Jason Moy

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Jason Moy » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:40:39


>as for the GTR MOD it would be rather easy to play graphic desigher for a
>day and play with some config files to create a few more cars which do
>nothing other than mock the game itself.

I normally don't back away from arguing with idiots, but this time I
have to pass.  I honestly don't even know where to begin, other than
to say that you should do some research into the arguments you're
making.  At this point you're discussing things that you have no
experience with or knowledge of.

As far as GTR2002 goes, it was designed by an accomplished
professional sports car race engineer using data from his actual shop.
It has been tested by drivers for the FIA GT series and other top
sports car drivers in order to make sure that the driving feel and
actual mechanics of the car and tires are as convincing as possible
given the limitations of PC hardware.

Another simulation that is worth keeping an eye on is Nascar 2003
which is being released by the developers of Indycar Racing, Grand
Prix Legends and the Nascar Racing Series.  Always a few steps ahead
of other simulations, this year's version (the final in the series) is
based around data that has been gathered with the assistance of
Goodyear Tire and Jasper Motorsports.  Early previews from the race
engineer involved in the project indicates that tires will heat and
wear in a way that is completely authentic and that setups can be
taken directly from a real stock car and applied to the sim.

All of this said, we are still a full decade at best from having a
100% authentic race car simulator.  However, the above games, as well
as Grand Prix Legends, all reward using real life racing techniques
and car setup theory.  The Gran Turismo series does a great job of
allowing someone to experience the thrill of driving high performance
cars with a gamepad.  Then again, so does Sega GT 2002, and Project
Gotham Racing, Metropolis Street Racer, Rallisport Challenge, and F355
all arguably do an ever better job.  I don't see any one playing these
games and talking about optimal tire temperatures or traction circles,
then again I'm not sure that those basic concepts of driving a car
really apply in those particular game worlds.  Generally it's hold
down the throttle trigger for as long as possible, hit the brake
trigger as late as possible (often while still holding the throttle
trigger), hit the throttle trigger as quickly as possible and hold it
down.  In GT type game there's really no point in practicing things
like trail braking since raw lateral velocity is more important than
weight transfer when determining the optimal line through a corner.

Anyway, do yourself a favor and get a decent PC wheel and copies of
the above mentioned simulations.

Jason

Joe M

Gran Turismo Best game until Operation Flashpoint or not?

by Joe M » Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:37:39

If you take a broader view which looks at other genres, Falcon 4 is probably
the best piece of simulation software ever created.  FAR more depth than
GPL.  The dynamic campaign is remarkable on its own, and probably more
technically complex than GPL in its entirety.

--
Joe M.


> GPL is the greatest single peice of software ever created and after 4 yrs
is
> still probly the best game ever for racing (at least round proper tracks
:).
> IMO (having only played gt1/2/3 on consoles)gpl is about...2 million times
> better.
>   dan


> > Toy Simulators---Where can I get a not toy simulator?Is a simulator a
> game?
> > or Software

> > Also Im sure that mid season of the first Gran Turismo release some
people
> > would have been more than happy to fork out big bucks.
> > I have quite a  friends(never used a computer before) even queryed
playing
> > computer games and purchasing a playstation duing the first months of
this
> > release.

> > Games ? Gran Turismo 1 went futher than just a game Gran Turimo 2 -3 are
> > games.
> > I built(Yes Built No mechanics can go near illegal gear ratio's) a Mazda
> RX4
> > (RealOne)to beat most modern modern cars using the gear ratio's
calculated
> > from GranTurismo as an easy way of testing a thousand combinations of
> weight
> > to power ,although the car is illegal is annother story but the specs
> worked
> > out within 10th of a sec  right.
> > (no I dont play Gran Turismo any More)

> > I am very confused as to what is GPL (is this a Software liecence?)

> > Also what is GTR2002? (is this an Addon for F1 2002 which converts it to
a
> > GT ?)
> > Also which F1 2002 ? (EA Ubi)

> > Why isn't GTR2002 making headlines like americasarmy.com with popular
game
> > sites?

> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > Just annother Programmer spewing all over the floor




> > > >What is this company thinking these PC titles if produced right could
> > fetch
> > > >up to $1000.00 per title provided the simuation level was made a
> fraction
> > > >better.

> > > If by "produced right" you mean a *** delivers it and lets you
> > > splooge all over her face before she leaves, then I agree.
> > > Other than that, even $100 is on the outer fringes of the toy
> > > simulations discussed here.

> > > Not a slam on racing games, I love them, but I also acknowledge that
> > > they are just that -games.


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