rec.autos.simulators

GT3 Countdown

Nodd

GT3 Countdown

by Nodd » Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:10:57

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:37:50 +0200, Gregor Veble


>Nope, I said USAF has a better physics model than, say Falcon 4.0, while
>I rated JF-18 on par, apart from one very serious bug. I didn't say it
>has a better flight model (which is determined by the parameters plugged
>into the physics model). Note the difference.

>GT series has a better physics model than, say, RC2k, and that one is
>considered a PC sim, right?

>-Gregor

I think you determine *better* physics models by which one bounces
around more and not by which is more realistic. Thus; your perception
that SDOE has a superior physics model than all other flight-sims.
Yes, it's me. :-)
Gregor Vebl

GT3 Countdown

by Gregor Vebl » Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:36:13

Hi No...ddy!

I determine the better physics model by seeing what is actually modelled
(inertia, lift curves, tyre slip models etc.). What do you use to
determine the better model?

-Gregor


> I think you determine *better* physics models by which one bounces
> around more and not by which is more realistic. Thus; your perception
> that SDOE has a superior physics model than all other flight-sims.
> Yes, it's me. :-)

Dave Henri

GT3 Countdown

by Dave Henri » Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:55:50


  When I'm trying to determine which is the better model, I try and look at
all their work, not just a few flashy covershots, but how well they work
fashion shows and most importantly, the amount of swaying as they make the
turn, low hip-level sway=Very Good...head swaying = very bad.  Now models
are also dependant upon outside forces as well, if they work several shows
for ***designers, then they aquire a reputation of having no taste. and
that means a serious loss of inc....what?    oh.....the 'other' kind of
models....sorry...nevermind........
dave henrie

Gunnar Horrigm

GT3 Countdown

by Gunnar Horrigm » Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:21:14


> Just curious, I have a Logitech Formula Force GP wheel with a USB
> connection. Since PS2 supports USB, is it possible to simply plug it in?

yes.  works like a charm.  the force effects are a bit so-so, though.  

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                             gitaren er en sjingke

Nodd

GT3 Countdown

by Nodd » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 06:34:55

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:36:13 +0200, Gregor Veble


>Hi No...ddy!

>I determine the better physics model by seeing what is actually modelled
>(inertia, lift curves, tyre slip models etc.). What do you use to
>determine the better model?

The one that feels the best to *me*. USAF may well have a 6dof
flight-model, but it's a completely porked one, same with SDOE.
Patric

GT3 Countdown

by Patric » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:44:47


> You know, GT series has a much better physics model than many a
> proclaimed sim on the PC.

Having played around with a fair number of sims on both the PC and the
Playstation, I think GT, while far from  perfect, is really not that bad
at all. In fact on PSX forums, people often complain about the 'tedious
real wordl physics' on GT....I guess they all want to turn into corners
without braking and would generally be much happier playing Ridge Racer or
some such pish.

Anyways, with the obvious exception of GPL, Gran Turismo isn't that far
behind most PC sims anyway (the physics model on the much hyped Rally
Championship 2000, in particular, is decidedly wrong). Of course the
absence of a damage model is
frustrating, but they would never have been able to get the car licenses
they got if they had included that.

World Sportscars looks promising though, doesn't it ?

P


http://members.tripod.com/~PatrickD/index.html
Tel-0131-661-3189

"Going to war over religion is essentially killing each other to see who
has the better imaginary friend"

Gregor Vebl

GT3 Countdown

by Gregor Vebl » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:00:04

USAF is indeed porked in some respects, no doubt about that. But one
needs to make a clear distinction between whether it's the physics or
the parameters that is wrong. Incidentally, the parameters for USAF are
currently being tweaked as it seems a development team member leaked a
tool; the excessive 'bobbing' is reportedly already eliminated on the
F-4, and I have no doubt a very fine flight model will emerge.

A similar discussion would go for SDOE; true, not all the planes have
been tweaked to this date, but those that were (the Spitfires, Bf-109s,
Mustang, Fw-190) and some newly created ones fly like a dream.

On the other hand, no matter how much you would tweak EAW, the same
feeling of flight cannot be achieved since the underlying model isn't
good enough. You can make the performance to be up to specs, but some
essential physics of flight will always be missing.

To get back to r.a.s. : there exist numerous tweaks for RC 2000 physics,
but one cannot make it feel real no matter what because a few essential
ingredients will be missing.

In the end, though, you might have a point, if a slightly different one
that you wanted to make ;). In the end, they're all games, and if
something works for you to immerse you into them, then let it be.

-Gregor


> The one that feels the best to *me*. USAF may well have a 6dof
> flight-model, but it's a completely porked one, same with SDOE.

istof

GT3 Countdown

by istof » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:12:16

>P


>http://www.racesimcentral.net/~PatrickD/index.html
>Tel-0131-661-3189

>"Going to war over religion is essentially killing each other to see who
>has the better imaginary friend"

my fave along this line is

Fighting for peace is like f*$#ing for ***ity.

:)

Regards all,
istoff

"Its easy to get lost in thought
if you don't go there often"    - Me, 1993

istof

GT3 Countdown

by istof » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:16:50

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:04 +0200, Gregor Veble


>USAF is indeed porked in some respects, no doubt about that. But one
>needs to make a clear distinction between whether it's the physics or
>the parameters that is wrong. Incidentally, the parameters for USAF are
>currently being tweaked as it seems a development team member leaked a
>tool; the excessive 'bobbing' is reportedly already eliminated on the
>F-4, and I have no doubt a very fine flight model will emerge.

hi,

can you clarify which sims you are referring to?  Janes?  I saw that
EA has re-released F15, Israeli AF, WW2 etc on budget for the
equivalent of about US$5 .  I might want to pick them up at that
price.  Interestingly Nascar 3 is on sale for about 10 dollars as
well.  Nascar 4 has *still* not been released in SA.  Only available
on import for now.  Apparently not enough of a demand locally :(

Also can you point me in the direction of the sight containing 3rd
party addons to these sims?  Most of the sites I come across are
focussed on Falcon 4.

thanks in advance.
Regards all,
istoff

"Its easy to get lost in thought
if you don't go there often"    - Me, 1993

Nodd

GT3 Countdown

by Nodd » Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:29:36

On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:00:04 +0200, Gregor Veble


>To get back to r.a.s. : there exist numerous tweaks for RC 2000 physics,
>but one cannot make it feel real no matter what because a few essential
>ingredients will be missing.

And I've used those tweaks and it feels better than CM2.0 to me. Rally
Cars don't power slide around every corner without it being forced by
the driver as in CM2.0. Now I'm not saying RC2K is really great, just
that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
Gregor Vebl

GT3 Countdown

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:56:35

No, RC2k is definitely not bad, and in many respects is the best rally
sim available, even in the driving aspect. Much like Falcon 4.0 isn't
bad either, even though some physics elements are missing. As I've often
said, it's first about the physics model, and then, no less important
what you make of it. Physics model of CMR 2.0 may actually model more
physics details than RC2k, but still RC2k may feel beter in certain
parts (most notably tarmac). Also, the flight model of Falcon 4.0 is
definitely better than anything in USAF, even if USAF models inertia
properly.

Oh, and the cars in RC2k slide just as much (at least in the demo), but
I've noticed that before any serious slide can develop, you are off the
road already. In CMR 2.0, it's the wide roads that are the culprit for
huge slides, which is what you would find in real life rallies on
wide(er) roads as well. Try certain UK stages with CMR 2.0, and if you
want to be reasonably fast, you will not tend to slide much.

-Gregor


> And I've used those tweaks and it feels better than CM2.0 to me. Rally
> Cars don't power slide around every corner without it being forced by
> the driver as in CM2.0. Now I'm not saying RC2K is really great, just
> that it's not as bad as some make it out to be.

Gunnar Horrigm

GT3 Countdown

by Gunnar Horrigm » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:43:19


> No, RC2k is definitely not bad, and in many respects is the best rally
> sim available, even in the driving aspect.

I don't get it.  on my computer I can't get 300 horsepower cars above
50 mph on inclines.  I don't think that's very realistic. :)

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                               myk, trygg og god.

Gregor Vebl

GT3 Countdown

by Gregor Vebl » Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:48:11

As I said, in many (and not all) respects. :)

-Gregor


> I don't get it.  on my computer I can't get 300 horsepower cars above
> 50 mph on inclines.  I don't think that's very realistic. :)

> --
> Gunnar
>     #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
>                                myk, trygg og god.

Gunnar Horrigm

GT3 Countdown

by Gunnar Horrigm » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 03:57:34

istoff <> writes:


> >istoff <> writes:

> >> I remembered this thread and found my GT2 cd.  I popped it in, fired
> >> up EPSXE 1.4 and had an enjoyable blast in my Subaru.  Running at
> >> 1024x768 32bit colour, filtered, etc, it was a darn sight better than
> >> running it on a PSX.  

> >is EPSXE downloadable?  can you use a steering wheel with it?
> sorry for missing the second part of your question.  i tried using my
> MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly.  For example, you had to
> use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc.

hm.   did you get the biggest dead zone ever with your wheel?

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                             gitaren er en sjingke

istof

GT3 Countdown

by istof » Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:11:28



>istoff <> writes:


>> >istoff <> writes:

>> sorry for missing the second part of your question.  i tried using my
>> MS Wheel with it, but it was a bit fiddly.  For example, you had to
>> use the wheel and pedals to select menus, etc.

>hm.   did you get the biggest dead zone ever with your wheel?

sorry for the late reply.  couldn't get it to work properly.  gave up
and went back to using a joypad.

Regards all,
istoff


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.