http://www.racesimcentral.net/,10865,2875327,00.html?...
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/screens/0,10865,2875327,00.html?...
> > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you guys
> might
> > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out "simulation".
> > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy even
> > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more options
> and
> > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> Goodyears.
> > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you guys
> > might
> > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
"simulation".
> > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy
even
> > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
options
> > and
> > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> > > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
--
Joe Marques
> Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > Hehe, ya it looks like it's gonna be a good one with the tread and draft
> > meter.
> > > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> > Goodyears.
> > > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you
guys
> > > might
> > > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
> "simulation".
> > > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy
> even
> > > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
> options
> > > and
> > > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> --
> Joe Marques
> > And these people do this stuff for a living? Some idiot had to program
> that,
> > all the while thinking "this is how it looks on my car at home"
> > Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > > Hehe, ya it looks like it's gonna be a good one with the tread and
draft
> > > meter.
> > > > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> > > Goodyears.
> > > > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you
> guys
> > > > might
> > > > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
> > "simulation".
> > > > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy
> > even
> > > > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
> > options
> > > > and
> > > > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
I have been burned/lied to from Ed before. I will gaurantee it will not be
all that.
I wonder if it will have multiplayer yellows? Or mutliplayer at all?
> --
> Joe Marques
> > And these people do this stuff for a living? Some idiot had to program
> that,
> > all the while thinking "this is how it looks on my car at home"
> > Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > > Hehe, ya it looks like it's gonna be a good one with the tread and
draft
> > > meter.
> > > > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> > > Goodyears.
> > > > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you
> guys
> > > > might
> > > > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
> > "simulation".
> > > > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy
> > even
> > > > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
> > options
> > > > and
> > > > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
Thanks,
Alex
> > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> Goodyears.
> > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you guys
> > might
> > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
"simulation".
> > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA guy
even
> > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
options
> > and
> > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> > > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
YMMV, as always, but ignoring multiplayer and using NR2002 vs F1-2002 as the
current state play, I'd say Papy still trumps ISI in:
overall game design and menus - much easier to navigate and more intuitive
to use; years of refinement in evidence here. No odd controller problems
that need afterthought fixes in cfg files. DW's track guides are much more
helpful than the F1 driving school, too.
replays - not even close, in virtually ANY respect, but then nothing else
is, that I've seen.
AI - Papy's has some issues, for sure, but the ISI AI do things that just
kill the immersion of offline racing for me, like going WAY off-track with
no trouble at all.
graphics/cpu optimization - I have an XP1800/GF4-4400, and with similar
graphics settings for both, I get better frame rates in the back of a 43 car
AI field in NR2002 than at the front of a 20 car field in F1-2002. With no
stutter, which occasionally plagues the latter. I'll leave the aesthetics
to individuals to call.
Damage - neither's perfect, but the levels of damage that affect
driveablilty are much more subtle in Papy's stuff (incl. GPL) than the crude
damage in F1-2002.
Sound - just look at how much effort went into matching tire sound to grip
conditions in NR2002. This is just one example of the lengths to which they
went to provide great feedback to the pc-bound driver and of the greater
depth of the game in general. Plus, note how the skid marks change density
during a skid as the grip level varies. There's a lot of information there,
which is ignored in the ISI product.
DEPTH and REFINEMENT; that's the difference. That said, I do like a lot
about F1-2002, and have spent more time with it lately than NR2002 (or GPL,
which I'm sad to say I've barely touched in months), just because it's a
blast to zip around road courses in an F1 car (and Dave Noonan's GPL/NR2002
track converter's not out yet ;-)). It has great sense of speed and
tweakability, and the physics appear to be excellent. Tough to really
compare the last, given the vast differences in car types, but I still think
Papy's giving you better feedback on what the physics model is doing. Papy
cars just TALK to you more. I also like the telemetry, though that was
apparently an add-on done privately by a simracer (Si-Phi?) for F1-2001 and
incorporated into the sequel. Would be out of place in a Nascar sim,
though.
In sum, both good products; one just has a big head start. Hope to see a
LOT more competition on the sim front in the next year.
Cheers,
SB
> "Well short" of Papy? Other than multiplayer, what is superior about the
> Papy engine? I'm not trolling here Steve, I'm seriously asking because
> after playing GPL and most Nascar games (Nascar 1 through N2K2 - skipped
N4)
> as well as EA's F1 2K, F1 2K1 and now F12K2, I find F1 2002 to be the
> superior product out of the whole lot. As far as I'm concerned GPL is now
> 2nd best.
> --
> Joe Marques
The June 18th preview at ign said alpha and had the same exact screenshot.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/362/362606p1.html
I hardly think it's an error to use the "old" skid marks from the core
simulation engine during alpha phase. It's only an error if they NEWLY
programmed the wrong skids which makes little sense given all the facts.
This may not be the next coming of Papy's Nascar but I don't think skid
marks will be the reason.
--
Joe Marques
8-16 will be too low for any league use, but perhaps they will have more
when it's final.
> The June 18th preview at ign said alpha and had the same exact screenshot.
> http://pc.ign.com/articles/362/362606p1.html
> > And why is having errors in an alpha justified?
> I hardly think it's an error to use the "old" skid marks from the core
> simulation engine during alpha phase. It's only an error if they NEWLY
> programmed the wrong skids which makes little sense given all the facts.
> This may not be the next coming of Papy's Nascar but I don't think skid
> marks will be the reason.
> --
> Joe Marques
--
Tim Doyle
TDRacin? Online
TeamECR Sim MotorSports
www.TeamECR.com
VRW Team Owner
www.VirtualRacingWorld.com
> I have been burned/lied to from Ed before. I will gaurantee it will not be
> all that.
> I wonder if it will have multiplayer yellows? Or mutliplayer at all?
> > Alpha, alpha, alpha. Repeat after me, A-L-P-H-A. It's obviously using
F1
> > tread skids (since it's ISI's F1 core) and seems simple enough to
change.
> > Although, it looks like a fatal error to have such horrible inaccuracies
> in
> > an alpha version if you go by RAS elitists. ;0)
> > --
> > Joe Marques
> > > And these people do this stuff for a living? Some idiot had to program
> > that,
> > > all the while thinking "this is how it looks on my car at home"
> > > Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > > > Hehe, ya it looks like it's gonna be a good one with the tread and
> draft
> > > > meter.
> > > > > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> > > > Goodyears.
> > > > > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but you
> > guys
> > > > > might
> > > > > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > > > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
> > > "simulation".
> > > > > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA
guy
> > > even
> > > > > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have more
> > > options
> > > > > and
> > > > > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002
> --
> Tim Doyle
> TDRacin? Online
> TeamECR Sim MotorSports
> www.TeamECR.com
> VRW Team Owner
> www.VirtualRacingWorld.com
> > ALPHA...
> > I have been burned/lied to from Ed before. I will gaurantee it will not
be
> > all that.
> > I wonder if it will have multiplayer yellows? Or mutliplayer at all?
> > > Alpha, alpha, alpha. Repeat after me, A-L-P-H-A. It's obviously
using
> F1
> > > tread skids (since it's ISI's F1 core) and seems simple enough to
> change.
> > > Although, it looks like a fatal error to have such horrible
inaccuracies
> > in
> > > an alpha version if you go by RAS elitists. ;0)
> > > --
> > > Joe Marques
> > > > And these people do this stuff for a living? Some idiot had to
program
> > > that,
> > > > all the while thinking "this is how it looks on my car at home"
> > > > Do these guys know anything about NASCAR or do they do ANY research?
> > > > > Hehe, ya it looks like it's gonna be a good one with the tread and
> > draft
> > > > > meter.
> > > > > > I was not aware that Winston cup cars had a tread pattern on the
> > > > > Goodyears.
> > > > > > > Posted this in the Papyrus Nascar and Simulation forums, but
you
> > > guys
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > appreciate it also, considering you probably know who ISS is.
> > > > > > > Gotta read this interview, they say they're going all out
> > > > "simulation".
> > > > > > > These are the same people who make the awesome F1 2002. The EA
> guy
> > > > even
> > > > > > > mentions they will be more "sim" than Papyrus and will have
more
> > > > options
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > tweaks than anybody, bar none.
> > > http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2875327,00.html
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > > > > > Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date:
7/15/2002