rec.autos.simulators

Graduating from arcade racers

Mike Rodrigue

Graduating from arcade racers

by Mike Rodrigue » Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Wow, That's a tough one.

Before someone loads you down with pithy answers, I'd like to say that GPL
humbled me quickly, harshly, and completely. Don't feel out of sorts about
that.

I also agree that 'unlearning' driver aids is ridiculously hard. (btw, my
right hand always involuntarily hovers over the [F1] key in GPL, even though
it's been ages since I used it in F1GP & GP2!) Better to start off without
them.

The 'trainer' cars are a little easier to deal with, but (and _everyone_
will tell you this) There is no substitue for Track Time. Get Kari Ikonen's
AI Tweaker and slow those puppies down as far as you need to.

Good Luck, bud.

Mike R.

David Kar

Graduating from arcade racers

by David Kar » Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I would add two things to Mike Rodriguez's suggestions--one may seem a bit
dull at first, but give it a shot:

take the quite detailed advice offered by Steve Smith in the GPL handbook
about familiarizing yourself with the driving model;

and,

get Allison Hine's Cooper (Coventry) setups
 http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/index.htm )--they make that car a
really forgiving jewel

DK


John Moor

Graduating from arcade racers

by John Moor » Tue, 27 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Your'e in luck.


> Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
> longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
> there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
> find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
> word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
> GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
> just to freaking hard and inaccessible.

Uh huh. No doubt about it.

Uh huh, funny thing isn't it.

There is a bridge and it's called SCGT or Sports Car GT, released last week by
EA.
Find a the demo and Clayton's editor. I would supply you the addys but I just
uninstalled it and purged all scgt bookmarks. I found it good but prefer the
challenge of GPL.

There's part of the reason you don't like GPL. It is wayyyy better with a 400 or
faster computer, you can turn on every option and get max frames per second
which makes it wayyyy easier to drive. I didn't say easy, I said easier.

Seriously Josh, try SCGT.  My problem is after GPL every other game is way too
easy. Oh it's fun sometimes to sit down and just thrash around  for fun but for
real satisfaction
the challenge of GPL is the best. Try it some more, turn off all the aids and
use a trainer car. Like most simmers I started that way and barely made a full
lap the first week, couldn't string together more than a few slowww laps for a
month, but gradually the feel came and within a few months I was turning some
good laps. Now I drive only a short pro race a week and can get within a few
seconds of the fastest times. And for sure once you can get around  get the ai
tweaker at the Apex files section to tone down the ai so you can run with the
pack. And use the Cooper with Alison's setups. Good Luck!
JM

j

Graduating from arcade racers

by j » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now. I
think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to help
improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above all
other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging the
gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible simulations.

Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

PII 266
128 mb RAM
Voodoo II 8mb
Act Labs Force RS
SB AWE 32 ISA

I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there. Just
one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners a
lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the given
setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
topic. Thanks again,

-Josh de Bever

Jo

Graduating from arcade racers

by Jo » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00


>Could you show me some tips to help
>improve?

Try the "trainer" F3 cars ... much more reasonable learning curve. I
hear there are some great F3 online races.

Joe

Jo

Graduating from arcade racers

by Jo » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00


>get Allison Hine's Cooper (Coventry) setups
> http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~alison/gpl/index.htm )--they make that car a
>really forgiving jewel

The above is VERY good adice, it will make a big difference.

Joe

John Bod

Graduating from arcade racers

by John Bod » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Have you given Viper Racing a shot?  I notice that folks are
recommending SCGT, but I think the physics model in Viper Racing is
probably better (i.e., closer to GPL).  Also, mastering Viper Racing
through ALL levels of the Career Mode will DEFINITELY build your
driving skills.  The Amateur level is almost arcade-like (in that I
was waxing the opposition in no time), but with upgrades and improved
AI at the advanced career levels, I HAD to learn to be a better driver
to win -- and the competition has been a BLAST for me.  

SCGT may also be a good starting point, but the demo seemed too
arcade-like for me (911s that look like Beetles, and no visible
damage).  In contrast, Viper Racing's physics just "feel" right (and
the cars look right, too, including realistic damage).  

-- JB


>Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
>longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
>there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
>find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
>word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
>GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
>just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
>would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
>sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
>doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
>few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
>trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now. I
>think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
>at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
>to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
>basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
>F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
>true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
>doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
>resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
>the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
>upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
>been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to help
>improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above all
>other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
>asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
>I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging the
>gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible simulations.

>Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

>PII 266
>128 mb RAM
>Voodoo II 8mb
>Act Labs Force RS
>SB AWE 32 ISA

>I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there. Just
>one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
>but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
>you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
>etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners a
>lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
>soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
>have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
>before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
>have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
>nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the given
>setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
>maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
>topic. Thanks again,

>-Josh de Bever

Anssi Porttikiv

Graduating from arcade racers

by Anssi Porttikiv » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hmm...I play GP2 only, and I don't see a large gap there. First I drove with
all the driving helps on. It was easy enough to be boring. And winning with
automatic breaking was difficult with Matti Laitinen's 1998 tracks update
pack, which probably does not do a very good job of hinting the game about
proper breaking places.

Then I started to practice breaking. It took maybe some 5 hours of practice
to get the hang of it. Now I can win at beginner level and I am having tons
of fun. A hint: instead of driving boring shortened races, drive full lenght
races (2 hours+) during a course of days, saving the game after you have
played enough for a day.

Chris Schlette

Graduating from arcade racers

by Chris Schlette » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Josh,

I might suggest trying GPL with the Trainer cars.  And use the AI editor to
scale back the AI if you want to race.  GPL is probably the most technical
racing sim to date on the PC and if you can slowly begin to master that you
will be able to get a good grasp of the rest of the sim crowd.  Think of GPL
as "racer education". ;)

Alain Genouill

Graduating from arcade racers

by Alain Genouill » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

It might sound weird to most, but GPL is my FIRST racing sim and I just LOVE it.
Yes it is very challenging, no it's not forgiving but keep in mind that YOU/WE
make the mistakes, not the game !
As a newbie the first thing I did was to turn off all aids, as I really believed
it was an obstacle for the future. Then I went onto Monza et started to lap,
first at a slow pace with the F3 then as fast as I could. When I mastered it I
did the same thing with the F2 and now I enjoy the F1 (and the scenery ....,
trees, rails etc...). I believe there is one word that's missing in the handbook
: Patience ! After reading tons of messages in this group, having read all of
Allison advices and much more, trust me, if you think you will win a race one
day take it easy ! One thing I must mention, and some may give me heat for this,
be careful (to say the least) using others set up (I am not talking about
Allison's ones as I have not tried them), but everyone drives differently and
after trying quite a bunch, I gave up and went back to my own EXCEPT for gearing
! I particularly enjoy gearing set ups which explain you WHY the gears are set
up that way for such track and you can really learn a lot for the future.

Finally, and if this eases your pain, I've had GPL for 4 months with 2 months
that don't count due to tons of hardware problems, and at this time after maybe
5 to 600 laps I am still on Monza trying to beat my limits !

Good luck, but definitely, go to Allison site and read this newsgroup. There is
a lot you can gain only by reading !


> Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
> longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
> there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
> find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
> word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
> GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
> just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
> would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
> sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
> doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
> few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
> trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now. I
> think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
> at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
> to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
> basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
> F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
> true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
> doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
> resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
> the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
> upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
> been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to help
> improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above all
> other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
> asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
> I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging the
> gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible simulations.

> Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

> PII 266
> 128 mb RAM
> Voodoo II 8mb
> Act Labs Force RS
> SB AWE 32 ISA

> I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there. Just
> one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
> but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
> you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
> etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners a
> lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
> soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
> have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
> before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
> have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
> nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the given
> setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
> maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
> topic. Thanks again,

> -Josh de Bever

Trip

Graduating from arcade racers

by Trip » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

J...

This may not be the answer you're looking for, but this is what's been working
for me.

Practice. Tons of practice. It's dull, frustrating, boring at times, and
sometimes seems like it's all for nothing. Keep at it. The thing you're looking
to do is NOT to go faster and faster, but more and more consistent. Even if
you're a full ten seconds off the pace, try to drive  so that all of your laps
are within a few tenths of a second of each other. If you want to make it more
fun while you're doing this, grab the AI tweaker from Alison's GPL site or the
Pits and slow those bad boys down. But above all, work on consistency.

Once you're consistent, then it's time to start working on making small changes
ONE AT A TIME to try to improve your times. You'll probably find that once
you're consistent your times will start improving. If you've tweaked the AI,
now's the time to speed em up just a little. Keep at it.

Eventually, you will be going a lot faster than you would have believed. I'm
still working at it, and while I'm not a threat to the truly fast drivers now,
I'm a lot closer than I was a few months ago...

The main thing to remember, is to work on consistency and the speed will come in
due time.

Trips


> Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
> longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
> there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
> find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
> word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
> GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
> just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
> would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
> sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
> doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
> few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
> trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now. I
> think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
> at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
> to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
> basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
> F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
> true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
> doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
> resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
> the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
> upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
> been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to help
> improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above all
> other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
> asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
> I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging the
> gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible simulations.

> Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

> PII 266
> 128 mb RAM
> Voodoo II 8mb
> Act Labs Force RS
> SB AWE 32 ISA

> I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there. Just
> one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
> but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
> you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
> etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners a
> lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
> soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
> have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
> before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
> have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
> nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the given
> setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
> maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
> topic. Thanks again,

> -Josh de Bever

Robin Lor

Graduating from arcade racers

by Robin Lor » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Try GP2 with the all driver aids apart from racing line, and suggested gear
off, put on the steering help (in advanced contol menu) it will practically
steer for you. Now pick a track and learn it, try to put the power down
gradually - don't floor it, when you break try to modulate them slightly so
you don't lock them up and slide off thew track. Practice this lots these
are things arcade games let you get away without doing.
When you get the hang of it try GPL, and be prepared to start learning all
over again!

--
Robin.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Nurburgring and Grand Prix Legends

Remove nospam from e-mail address to reply


>Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
>longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
>there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
>find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the
last
>word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
>GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
>just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
>would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
>sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
>doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
>few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
>trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now.
I
>think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
>at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
>to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
>basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
>F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
>true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
>doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
>resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
>the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
>upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
>been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to
help
>improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above
all
>other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
>asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
>I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging
the
>gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible
simulations.

>Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

>PII 266
>128 mb RAM
>Voodoo II 8mb
>Act Labs Force RS
>SB AWE 32 ISA

>I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there.
Just
>one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
>but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
>you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
>etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners
a
>lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
>soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
>have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
>before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
>have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
>nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the
given
>setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
>maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
>topic. Thanks again,

>-Josh de Bever

John Bod

Graduating from arcade racers

by John Bod » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00


>J...
>This may not be the answer you're looking for, but this is what's been working
>for me.
>Practice. Tons of practice. It's dull, frustrating, boring at times, and
>sometimes seems like it's all for nothing. Keep at it. The thing you're looking
>to do is NOT to go faster and faster, but more and more consistent. Even if
>you're a full ten seconds off the pace, try to drive  so that all of your laps
>are within a few tenths of a second of each other. If you want to make it more
>fun while you're doing this, grab the AI tweaker from Alison's GPL site or the
>Pits and slow those bad boys down. But above all, work on consistency.

VERY true -- as they say, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast.
Consistency and SMOOTHNESS at the controls will get you there.
Screaming tires in a given turn *seem* fast, but a smoothly-executed
pass through that same turn may actually seem slow or boring -- but it
often turns out to be the quickest time you've ever made through that
particular turn, too.  My fastest laps are usually the ones with the
least drama and e***ment, it seems.

-- JB

>Once you're consistent, then it's time to start working on making small changes
>ONE AT A TIME to try to improve your times. You'll probably find that once
>you're consistent your times will start improving. If you've tweaked the AI,
>now's the time to speed em up just a little. Keep at it.
>Eventually, you will be going a lot faster than you would have believed. I'm
>still working at it, and while I'm not a threat to the truly fast drivers now,
>I'm a lot closer than I was a few months ago...
>The main thing to remember, is to work on consistency and the speed will come in
>due time.
>Trips

>> Hi guys! I've had GPL ever since it game out, but to be honest, it has sat
>> longer on my hard drive collecting dust than I've spent playing it. And,
>> there is a very good reason for that... I STINK AT IT, and as a result, I
>> find playing GPL incredibly frustrating and the word "FUN" is about the last
>> word I use to describe it. Now, I'm not complaining about the quality for
>> GPL since everything about it is great, I just don't like it because its
>> just to freaking hard and inaccessible. So, the solution to this problem
>> would seem easy enough wouldn't it? I mean, ok, I can't handle ***
>> sims, so just take it down a notch right? Well, I have a similar problem
>> doing that. It seems that I can "beat" all most any arcade racing game in a
>> few days and after that playing just ain't that much fun. Now, I've been
>> trying to "step up" from arcade racers to simulations for a long time now. I
>> think the first true sim I played was Indy Car Racing 1 from papy... well,
>> at that time I didn't have a great system and no wheel or pedal setup, not
>> to mention the garage options have always confused the heck outta me, so
>> basically, that venture didn't turn out to grand. I tried GP II, NASCAR II,
>> F1RS (which I'm still with), but the problem is the same with all of these
>> true sims: THE GAP BETWEEN ARCADE AND SIM IS HUGE! on top of that, there
>> doesn't seem to be any games that can "bridge" this gap. So, as a last
>> resort, I have come to you guys in the hopes that you can help me "bridge"
>> the gap between arcade and sim. I really love racing, but I've spent hours
>> upon hours racing sim upon sim and just can't be competitive. Has anyone
>> been in this jam? Did you get out of it? Could you show me some tips to help
>> improve? I realize that GPL especially is on a plane of complexity above all
>> other sims, but I just want to be able to have some fun with it. I'm not
>> asking to "show me how to be the god of racing in three easy steps" because
>> I know that isn't possible. All I'm asking is for a little help bridging the
>> gap between the easy arcade racers and the seemingly impossible simulations.

>> Here's my system specs in case you'd like to take a look:

>> PII 266
>> 128 mb RAM
>> Voodoo II 8mb
>> Act Labs Force RS
>> SB AWE 32 ISA

>> I think that's about all that would be relevant so I'll stop off there. Just
>> one last note, I have of course tried gradually removing driving aids etc.
>> but I always find that you have to completely relearn everything as soon as
>> you remove the aids. For example, in F1RS, while turning on anti-skid, ABS,
>> etc. driving is easy, and it seems like you could take some of the corners a
>> lot faster that those slow AI's, but start removing everything and you'll
>> soon find that you have to re-learn the track, what speeds and gears you
>> have to enter and leave at etc. which essentially means you wasted you time
>> before. Oh, and does anyone else find the garage options very confusing? I
>> have no background in cars, I just love racing, so I find setting up my car
>> nearly impossible so I just leave it alone and learn to drive with the given
>> setup. Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could give me a few tips,
>> maybe a few things to try, or generally any information or comments on this
>> topic. Thanks again,

>> -Josh de Bever

turbojo

Graduating from arcade racers

by turbojo » Wed, 28 Apr 1999 04:00:00

J,

 As I still consider myself a newbie after about two months total GPL
time(started with the demo) I can say the advice that is given in this NG
should be taken as gospel. The guys here always seem ready to help and are
never condesending to those of us that are still struggling with this sim.
Unfortunately no advice,setup,tweak or whatever else is going to make you
fast overnight. As most have suggested in this thread you MUST
practice,practice & practice some more. Hell,I am still running Monza and
after what I would guess to be at least 1,000 laps I can finally run under
1:30 consistantly. After my first 1:29 time I went absolutely whacko! I
almost feel ready to tackle a new track. GPL is probably the most humbling
but at the same time the most rewarding program ever written for the pc.
 Blow the dust off of the program, get it loaded up and get prepared for a
divorce because once you get into it there is no turning back. When you have
a problem or a question this is where to come. I would like to thank
everyone here that has so unselfishly contributed to helping us newbies to
better enjoy GPL. Your input has not gone un noticed.

Joe

Peter Gag

Graduating from arcade racers

by Peter Gag » Thu, 29 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hmmm, where do we start?     8-)

First off you don't say in your message, but you *DO* have a wheel don't
you? Trying to drive proper sims without one is very hard, some people use
joysticks, but using the keyboard is almost a waste of time (Although I
used to drive GP2 using keys!!!)

At the very least you want an analogue control (wheel or joystick) device
rather than a digital one (keyboard), as these give you much more control.
And, as one of the keys to fast laptimes is smoothness, you need a good
controller?

The following applies to *ALL* sims, (and arcade games for that
matter?)......

Don't try to break any World record first time out on the track, it ain't
gonna happen!

Most sims have driver aids to help you learn the sim. TURN THEM OFF!!!
They will aid you to drive the car at first, but ultimately they will make
it a lot harder for you to learn to drive the cars properly in the long
term. You will get to a certain point using driver aids, then have to turn
them off, and at that point you will have to re-learn how to drive the
cars without the aids all over again!

It will be a little harder to learn the cars without driving aids, but
after the initial learning curve you will reap much bigger benefits cos
you will know how to drive the cars from scratch.

Most sims also allow you to use slower or trainer cars, or you can alter
the set-up to slow the cars down (reduce gear ratios, increase downforce,
add weight, etc). Now it may sound stupid to slow the cars down, but we
want a (relatively) slow car so that you can learn how to drive it? Once
you learn how to drive it, then you can make the car faster, or use the
faster cars that are available. If you start in a full F1 car, it will be
too powerful for you, and you will just spin off all the time and get
frustrated.

Ok, so we have a good controller, we have the aids turned off, we are not
trying to break world records, we have a slow car, good......Then we'll
begin.....

Pick a track, any track. Now stick to it (in GPL Monza is a good track to
start with?) Just drive around the track for a couple of laps, but don't
even try to be quick, just pootle around and try to learn the track
layout, and try to keep the car consistently on the track.

Keep doing this, trying to remember what corner is coming next, a left
turn?  a right turn? short straight? long straight? all the time not
really trying to drive fast, but just trying to keep the car
consistently on the track without spinning off.

After a few laps (5 to 10?) you will become familiar with the track
layout. Now you can try to go a little faster, but we are still *not*
trying to break any records. What you *are* trying to do is drive a
reasonably fast lap, *BUT* ,still keeping the car consistently on the
circuit. When you do finally achieve this (you will almost certainly fall
off a couple of times first?) note the laptime, say 2:00:00 dead or
1:40:00 or 3:10:00 or whatever?

Now try and go out and beat *THAT* time, and we are not trying to beat it
by much? just by one hundredth of a second is fine, as long as we beat it.
And *ALL THE TIME* we are trying to consistently stay on the track.

Try this for an hour or so, and you *WILL* see your laptimes come down,
slowly but surely. And you will also be learning the track, almost
subconsciously, but you *are* learning it.

Every lap you are trying to brake into each corner, just that little bit
later, and hold the throttle through the corner as much as possible, and
on every corner exit you are trying to accelerate out of it that little
bit faster. You will also be learning where to change gear, maybe staying
in one gear through the corner, trying to change up a gear that little bit
sooner? The key here is smoothness. Try to accelerate and brake *SMOOTHLY*
rather than just stamping on the pedals. Try to gently steer into and out
of corners rather than yanking the wheel from side to side. Smooth really
does equal fast. Smoothness and consistency are the keys.

Using this method, after a good couple of hours (say 2 or 3) you should be
handling the car ok, you should know the circuit fairly well, and your
laptimes should have come down quite a bit since you first started?

If you use this method on every circuit, and with every car (and even with
every set-up change) you will really notice the laptimes come down fast,
and you will learn the circuits fairly quickly.

Other tips to use are to download set-ups from the web if you are unsure
of changing car set-ups yourself, (but the GPL default set-ups are not too
bad, and are certainly ok to learn with). Also download replay of fast
laps from the net, watch and learn. See where the fast guys change gear?
what gears they use? what speeds they reach? where they start braking?
where they start accelerating? and what line they use? Make a mental note
of these points (or even write them down) so you know what to ultimately
aim for. If they can do it, so can you!

You might also want to consider a hardware upgrade? Frame rates are *very*
very important in sims. The graphics must be silky smooth to give you the
best chance to control the car. If an upgrade is not an option, then try
to turn off any unnecessary graphics options or features to try and
maintain 36fps (in GPL) or as high as possible?

Lastly, don't expect too much too soon? It takes time to be fast, patience
is required and lots, and lots of practice. There are *NO* shortcuts when
using a real sim? Have fun while you are practising though.....

8-)

*Peter*     8-)


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