rec.autos.simulators

Is it going to be possible to bypass the points system and race in a
specific class of car?

Are they going to be providing any real cars (GT-40's, Porsche 917's,
etc) besides the toy cars that will be included in the first release?

Opinions vary from "Gran Turrismo for the PC"  to "Best sim ever"

My opinion is in the former camp - and there's a very strange particularly
non-typically sim type community surrounding it ( more akin to Half Life
than GPL as it were).

It's a very good product - no doubt - but not my bag.

Doug

Interesting. I would agree that the community is odd. I think the sim
very good. The online code is really superb,  how they manage it I dont
know but you never get those incidents where one player sees an incident
completely differently from the other guy because of the lag.

As for the question on bypassing the points system, no, you cant get
the faster cars until you get some points, however it's ridiculously
easy to get enough, and many (inluding me) still race the F despite
having thousands of credits.

steve

Maybe companies putting out stuff like Pro Race Driver have it all wrong,
maybe people -DO- want a little more realism. Or maybe a lot of people just
liked the idea of a free game with killer netcode and the ability for anyone
to easily make a skin for their car.

The opinions of "Gran Turismo for PC" and "Best Sim Ever" in my opinion are
both great comments towards the game. I love the idea of Turismo, just
because of all the wonderfully modelled real life cars that vary from little
cars to monsters, and on and off road. If someone gave Turismo real good
physics (although I'm not one to knock it's physics, since the cars look to
be moving real (wish I could say that about CMR3) and you can't tell if it's
accurate using a joypad anyways), I think they'd have a real winner, and
that does seem like what LFS is trying to do. Unfortunately, none of the
cars are real cars, and I think the graphics are a little sub-par. It
obviously isn't going to have the scope of Turismo, and it's probably not
going to be the best sim ever. Which leaves it somewhere in the middle...
but a vary cool game, and quite impressive coming from 3 guys.

I still want to see what the tracks (at least maps) and more of the new cars
look like, and deep down I sort of hope they don't cater too much to the
'drifting' crowd in the forum and people that want NOS buttons on the cars,
or like, lights underneath and stuff.

Mike
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

--
/S

I suspect this might have something to do with the price. When they start
charging we might see the average age move up.

I agree that the lack of real cars will be an issue, assuming that they
dont manage to do a deal with somebody. The graphics are less of an issue.
You're right, they're not great, but that doesnt seem to have done GPL
any harm.

steve (aka Trip in LFS)

Haven't tried it online in quite a few versions since the sound was hosed
with my Audigy (surprise!), but the online code was great when I did; real
door-rubbin' fun.  Looked like a bunch of BTCC maniacs out there.  But just
as there is a difference between the GPL and Nascar communities, the LFS
crowd has a different slant, and includes some folks you don't run into in
the "normal" sim circles.  For instance, the whole "drifting" thing is lost
on me, but then I'm a bit long in the tooth for that anyway.  ;-)

The FWD cars are indeed bog-slow, but that's part of the appeal; the racing
is close ala FD/F3 in GPL.  And getting enough points for the Turbo is easy;
just load up some AI on Pro and spank them about 4/5 times.  As for "real"
cars, we'll see when they show up.  But they were showing a stealthy black
F3000 in some of the screenshots on BHMS.

SB

First up, I love realistic Sims. I've been into real world motorsports for
20 years (and thus am also no longer of the younger generation :-), and was
a rally driver for many years. GPL, LFS and Rally Trophy are my favourite
racing games/sims. I enjoy disiplined, clean, racing.

Flipping the coin - I can also relate the LFS scene, and understand where
the support comes from. Oh yes, I also love drifting!

LFS has a very broad appeal. On one hand you have the top SIM teams like
redline racing running LFS races. You also have social level racing with
slower times, but still reasonably clean racing, but a lot of chit chat and
hooning around between races.

You also have the drifters - this is an art, and sub-culture within itself.
I'm not into (too old?) the customised skins that people takes days to
create, so I'm not really one of the "in" people with the drifters, but I
just love getting the car sideways. Its like rallying on tarmac, and
requires a very high skill level.

If you wish to understand the sub-culture of drifting, try to find one of
the Japanese "anime" series about the drifting sub-culture. In these
animated episodes, there is an incredible amount of accurate technical
detail about the drift racing. For instance, there is regular commentry
(thinking out loud) from one of a pair of racers commenting on the mistakes
of the other driver, such as too much attitude (oversteer) affecting the
speed out of the corners.

More importantly, there is the psychological side of the culture. Pride is
everything.

Back to LFS - being able to do a perfect drifting lap gives a huge
adreniline rush - its better than when I won my first GPL race.

Younger people can relate to the cars and whole scene very easily. The cars
are the type that the 16-25s can afford to buy and hot up in the real world.
The virtual world of LFS is excellent - you can chat all the time, become a
passenger in some else's car, or even take someone else's car for a "test
drive" with their permission. This will let you test their car with all the
personalised settings. This provides a fantastic, social, online world. Sort
of like ICQ on speed (pun intended).

As someone else mentioned, it is possible to hop into a LFS car for the
first time and at least compete a lap without spinning. This is what has
drawn many people in that didn't have the disipline or prior real world
driving histing to master GPL. However, driving the cars fast requires as
much practice and skill as with GPL.

Also, many younger people are put off by the perceived snobbiness of the GPL
online scene. Let's face it, GT stripes and custom mag wheels don't go down
too well on the F1 GPL cars. Also, the online racing environment is very
different - you don't have the social chit chat whilst racing. You might now
ask the question of how I can cope with chat messages during a serious race?
I don't. When I'm racing seriously, I can turn the messaging off  - or more
likely there is no need as there is hardly any during the serious racing.

Like I said earlier - there is a very broad spectrum of racing with LFS.

Finally, the physics are stunningly accurate. They've even got real time
tyre deformation moddled - you can see it when you run low tyre pressures.

Regards,
Tim

Mike
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

I totaly aggre :)

I should had that , because u can change skin, wheel rim, and there'll
be a drag strip in S1 release, ther's 'Fast and Furious' community on
LFS. I dont like drag, but surely this game drag a lot of different
kind of racers :D

cheers,

Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer
Dynamics and Car Physics
http://www.eden-studios.fr
GPLRank Normal:-44.24   Monster:-124.44
LFS GTI                 1:35:56
LFS GT                  1:36:18
LFS GT TURBO            1:28:26

You got people in IDENTICAL cars, using joypads, keyboard and wheels..
automatic transmissions, no clutches.. or manual transmissions and no
clutch.

You may as well just end the race as soon as whoever hits the gas pedal
first. I certainly wouldn't have wasted time implementing that, but I guess
they gotta keep customers happy..

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

There's still the setup tweaking that can make a difference... and shifting
points... and launch technique... IMO identical cars just make it more
interesting.

- JKo -

I dont do drag racing but my starts have definitely improved. I have a
wheel & pedals and the right about of throttle applied over the first
few seconds prevents wheelspin and keeps the revs a max torque.

It's definitely a skill. Just not, in my opinion, a very interesting
one.

steve

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

Larry