rec.autos.simulators

Ok, there's been plenty of discussion about saved games in N2 and
what's realistic, etc. I also think it's a general consensus that the
N1/ICR2 savegame sucks so here's what I propose for Sierra to
implement in a patch for N2.
A race can be saved when:
-after each session (practice, qual, etc.)
-during yellows or pitstops during race, BUT:
        -once race has been saved, then loaded to pick up from where
you leave off, the old saved race is automatically deleted by the game
and you can only save again once a yellow hits or you pit (of course
the game should keep track of all cars current track position, race
position, any damage, and other pertinent details including human cars
setup changes that take place during the race.
This feature would essentially not allow someone to save a race after
every few laps just in case they crash so they can go back and pick up
where they left off.  This would, however, allow those of us who don't
have time to run a full race in one sitting to do so.

Of course all comments, criticisms etc. are welcome.

Brad

I would like a save race feature.  I like the stretegy of a 100% length
race, but often don't have enough time in one sitting.  I just finished
a race at Dover that took me three weeks!  Why? I was working 12 hour
days and spent some time traveling.  I routinely complete a race over a
weeks time.  I generally try to save after yellow.  I don't want to run
shorter races because at some tracks I don't qualify well or like to
start last and it takes 1/2 - 3/4 of the race just to get to the top 5.

My golf game, Links386, allows me to save the game at any time.  How
many PGA players can quit and come back later?  I know I can cheat and
save after every hole and replay until I get a birdie, thus altering
history, but I don't use it for that.

It seems to me the two sides of the "save arguement" are

1.  People like me who honestly use the save feature to run full
races     in multiple sittings.

2.  People who compete in leagues and want to prevent cheating.

How about a "flag" in the standings at the end of the race that
indicates if the race was saved at some point.

Anyway, my vote is for a save feature.  I think N2 is a great
improvement over the original, but I will probably still play both until
a save patch is available.

1)      Shorten the race.

2)      Reduce your family load/work load.

3)      Push pause until you are ready to come back ;)

4)      Or some combination of the above.

***********************************************
*                                             *
*           Karl aka The Dobeman              *
*        Clan member of Zealot Wroth          *
*                                             *
***********************************************
*                                             *
*     1996 Ninja 500      1995 VW Golf        *
*        1995 Wife & 1990 Doberman            *
*                                             *
***********************************************

And this upsets your sense of morality and fair play?  If so, please accept
my apology for all the times I have done this and caused you either mental
or physical harm.  What?  My doing this didn't personally affect you?  Then
why shouldn't I be able to do it?  You all seem so dang worried that I, or
anyone else who wants some sort of save feature implemented, am going to
cheat on you?  And how, exactly, are we cheating you by saving OUR game?
Want them ( Papy ) to put in a counter variable to keep track of how many
times the game has been saved so you off-line racers ( I take it you are
one, since this is the only way a save game could hurt you ) will know if
someone is cheating on you?  Fine, ask for it.  Throw  those cheating dogs
out of your series.  This doesn't bother me, and if it _does_ bother
anyone, then perhaps these are the cheaters you are worried about, and have
been using the save game to cheat you.  Feel free to never speak to or race
with them again.

I don't either.  Put it back.

No.  

Sure.  Where do you live?  I will ship them to you ASAP.
Oh yes, that's what I want.  My computer paused for a a few days or a week.
 Yep, see that happening.

Let's combine the save game back into the program.

Oh, and yes.  I saw Adams response about having to rush the product out (
gee, couldn't tell ) and not having the time to fool with the save option.
This, while it still sucks, is a much better, and more understandable
reason for excluding it.

The ' this is a SIM and real drivers can't ' was and is horse pucky.  Bet
they wish they could!!

<snip>
: It seems to me the two sides of the "save arguement" are

: 1.  People like me who honestly use the save feature to run full
: races     in multiple sittings.

: 2.  People who compete in leagues and want to prevent cheating.

: How about a "flag" in the standings at the end of the race that
: indicates if the race was saved at some point.

The real reason the "save" feature did not make the game was there
wasn't enough time to do it right and get the product out by Christmas.
I can't believe that Sierra/Papyrus would axe a "normal" feature of
almost all entertainment software just because a bunch of off-line
league racers don't want "cheaters" to play.

: Anyway, my vote is for a save feature.  I think N2 is a great
: improvement over the original, but I will probably still play both until
: a save patch is available.

Now that the product is out and due to the fact that the programmers
couldn't figure out an easy way to make the save-game work the way they
wanted it, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a patch which will
provide this feature.  I believe that Adam from Papyrus has already
stated such.  However, that does not change the fact that I feel this is
a "flaw" in the final product.  Not a fatal one, but a glaring one.  Do I
still want Sierra/Papyrus to put it in? YES!  It would certainly go a
long way in helping me preserve a "family life".

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

As for myself, *I* am one of those that said the reason I didn't care
if the save game feature was absent was because of "my opinion" that
it helped "cheaters" in off-line racing leagues.  strictly an opinion,
and I would hope no one got the impression that I was implying that
was why it was absent.  

Again, all I stated was my opinion of why I didn't mind it's absence,
not speculating on why they left it out.

Just wanted to clear that up ;)

        So if it's not a big deal, why waste time including it?  I would much
rather have better graphics or better AI than a savegame.  But hey,
that's just my opinion, and you are free to your own too.

        Only you can live with the decisions you make.  Remember, every action
has an opposite reaction.  You will not shorten your race and you know
that there is no savegame, then run it in one sitting or push the
pause key.  Simple isn't it?  You don't have time to run that 100%
race in it's entirety and you know there is no savegame, then you know
what your options are don't you?        

        What is the pay and how's your wifes cooking? ;)  I'll give out my
address once I know.

        Those are your choices, right?

        If they do, they do.  If they don't, they don't.  You've already made
your views known that you want the savegame.  Fair enough.  Myself, I
want those cheerleaders in the pits.  Failing that, how about making
the saved results file for the end of the races easy to decifer.  The
offline leagues might go the way of the dinosaur if they can't decode
that save file.  And that, my friend, really stinks.

        I never said that horse pucky stuff..  I think it's obvious that any
and all bugs or, ahem, features are the result of getting the game out
before the programmers said it was done.  It's just before X-mas for
chrissakes!  If I was calling the shots I would do the same, except
I'd try to get it out a week earlier, more profits that way!
Personally, I'm glad they did release it when they did, because I'm
having a blast with it.  I would race happily with the product in it's
present state without any patches or updates.  It's that good.  
        And don't forget Adam's comment (I think it was Adam) that with the
game in it's present state, it would be EXTREMELY difficult to get the
saverace feature included.  So, it looks like you're gonna have to
live with it Robert. Sorry.

***********************************************
*                                             *
*           Karl aka The Dobeman              *
*        Clan member of Zealot Wroth          *
*                                             *
***********************************************
*                                             *
*     1996 Ninja 500      1995 VW Golf        *
*        1995 Wife & 1990 Doberman            *
*                                             *
***********************************************

: Ok, there's been plenty of discussion about saved games in N2 and
: what's realistic, etc. I also think it's a general consensus that the
: N1/ICR2 savegame sucks so here's what I propose for Sierra to
: implement in a patch for N2.
: A race can be saved when:
: -after each session (practice, qual, etc.)
: -during yellows or pitstops during race, BUT:
:       -once race has been saved, then loaded to pick up from where
: you leave off, the old saved race is automatically deleted by the game
: and you can only save again once a yellow hits or you pit (of course
: the game should keep track of all cars current track position, race
: position, any damage, and other pertinent details including human cars
: setup changes that take place during the race.
: This feature would essentially not allow someone to save a race after
: every few laps just in case they crash so they can go back and pick up
: where they left off.  This would, however, allow those of us who don't
: have time to run a full race in one sitting to do so.

I agree with almost all you say, but I don't see why it would need to
delete a previous saved game.  You notice we all call it save "game"?
Get a life folks, it's just entertainment.  

I would suggest that we forget the paranoia of off-line league racers
and provide a full product to Papyrus' loyal customers/fans.  This fear
of "cheaters" leads me to believe that they need to seek some
psychological help.  They are the ones that seem to be obsessed with
"cheating". <G>

Allow us to save in between Qualifying, Final Practice and Race Day.
Give us the option to save under Yellow conditions only.  Basically this
will allow for a similar save-game as earlier Papy sims.  However, as
suggested, PLEASE keep the information on tire wear / fuel consumption /
wedge changes / etc. for all cars.  Also line up the cars in the order
they were on the track (not the standings order).  After loading a
saved game, complete a full 3 laps under caution.

Maybe the programmers can give us a switch that will allow save-game or
not.  The value of this switch can be PGP encrypted into the race
results for off-liners who fear cheaters.  We will all have the public
key for decoding this information.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=