rec.autos.simulators

by JP » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:29:31

> > EA has been "throwing" money(sponsoring races, cars, pr events) at
> Nascar
> > for the last few years. How initiated that, EA or Nascar, who knows.
> But
> > thats part of the point. Sierra/Papy, etc. could have done the same.
> They
> > chose not to, for whatever reason. But it was *their* choice.
> > Not poaching, when no one is prohibited from doing the same as
> anyone
> > else. Now if being financially "prohibited" from doing so is the
> reason
> > Sierra/Papy bowed out, big deal.

> > Thats their problem, not EA's.

> Of course, but that's not what we're talking about ;-)

> You didn't see how EA could be 'blamed' for Papy's demise, now you do.
> You don't have to agree with it, and you can argue the toss forever if
> you want, we'll never know for sure ;-)

> Best to focus on what we do know. Papy is gone & it's the end of an era
> in motorsport simulation. Whether they were the best in their field or
> not they were ***y good & deserve respect.

> On the other hand we now have two things to look forward to. You have
> the potential to see EA make something worthwhile out of their NASCAR
> license, and the future looks fairly promising for the ex-Papy crew at
> the moment.

> Not sure the F1 crowd have much to look forward to for the next couple
> of years though ;-)

> Malc.

Yep. Btw, I thought I read that the only ex-Papy person would be Kaemmer ?
Hear anything like that ? Can't remember the details myself, but i.e., no
Sentell, Heath, etc., just 3d artists and Kaemmer.
Not that that would be bad, but am wondering if that rumor is true or not.

- Show quoted text -

by **Malc** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:40:12

> > On the other hand we now have two things to look forward to. You
have
> > the potential to see EA make something worthwhile out of their
NASCAR
> > license, and the future looks fairly promising for the ex-Papy crew
at
> > the moment.
> Yep. Btw, I thought I read that the only ex-Papy person would be
Kaemmer ?
> Hear anything like that ? Can't remember the details myself, but
i.e., no
> Sentell, Heath, etc., just 3d artists and Kaemmer.
> Not that that would be bad, but am wondering if that rumor is true

or not.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6103365/p-8.html

Malc.

by JP » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:40:48

> > > On the other hand we now have two things to look forward to. You
> have
> > > the potential to see EA make something worthwhile out of their
> NASCAR
> > > license, and the future looks fairly promising for the ex-Papy crew
> at
> > > the moment.

> > Yep. Btw, I thought I read that the only ex-Papy person would be
> Kaemmer ?
> > Hear anything like that ? Can't remember the details myself, but
> i.e., no
> > Sentell, Heath, etc., just 3d artists and Kaemmer.
> > Not that that would be bad, but am wondering if that rumor is true
> or not.

> http://www.gamespot.com/features/6103365/p-8.html

> Malc.

Yeah, saw that when it was first posted. Just thought I saw something
else on it, elsewhere. Maybe not.

by **Byron Forbe** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 14:52:36

Basically, it set the precedent for all things Papy ie about as good as
it could be taking into account the power offered by current hardware.
Probably one of the first sims that the word "immersion" applied to. The
good physics made you soon forget the crude graphics :)

by **Larr** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:55:47

Papy was always very involved with Nascar, until about the time Sierra came
along I think.

I believe it was Bobby Labonte that practically WROTE the manuals for Nascar
Racing 2.

That's another thing. Anyone else notice that the manuals went to shit
about the time Sierra came into the fold ?

-Larry

> > > Already answered your question; it was amusing that EA was being
> > blamed,
> > > and I wanted to hear the "logic" behind that.

> > > And no, I don't see any reasoning behind people blaming EA.

> > I guess you can appreciate that if one is to blame Papy/Sierra/Vivendi
> > management it would be because one thinks they either messed up & lost
> > the NASCAR license, or decided it wasn't financially worth*** on
> > to.

> > The flip side of this is that EA may well have believed that in losing
> > their F1 license to Sony they needed another 'big brand' license and so
> > 'poached' the NASCAR license from Papy by simply throwing money at
> > NASCAR until they sold out. In this way EA would not only gain a
> > potentially valuable license, they would also damage the only other
> > serious competitor in that area, which it certainly did.

> > Whether the NASCAR license is an adequate replacement for the F1 one is
> > debatable, but it's got to be better for EA than no license at all for
> > any major form of motorsport, hence the justification for believing
> > Papy's demise to be 'EA's fault'.

> > Malc.

> EA has been "throwing" money(sponsoring races, cars, pr events) at
Nascar
> for the last few years. How initiated that, EA or Nascar, who knows. But
> thats part of the point. Sierra/Papy, etc. could have done the same.
They
> chose not to, for whatever reason. But it was *their* choice.
> Not poaching, when no one is prohibited from doing the same as anyone
> else. Now if being financially "prohibited" from doing so is the reason
> Sierra/Papy bowed out, big deal.

> Thats their problem, not EA's.

by **Biz** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:18:51

EA hasn't managed to do one yet...

by **Uwe Sch??rkam** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:45:24

> ..but then I'm a bit of a frea... eh, hardware history buff ;)

That's a mild understatement, Ruud ;-) Good to hear your pension is
taken care of, when you'll finally have enough time to open that
computer museum ;-)

uwe

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by **Uwe Sch??rkam** » Sat, 31 Jul 2004 23:49:11

Sorry to hear that, David, you must have missed out on the great OS
that was OS/9 (and only ran on the 64 model I believe). Heck, I was
well prepared when I entered uni a decade later as it was so similar
to Unix on the command line level. Quite a feat to put a multitasking,
multiuser OS (although without swap) into 64kb (that's KiloBYTES for
you) of RAM and still have some left to run Pascal compilers, word
processors, Spreadsheets and so on (all without swap space, mind you)

I still have the Dragon64 OS/9 manual on my shelf and skim through it
from time to time, it really was a fascinating machine for its day.

cheers,

uwe

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Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **PC24** » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 01:30:50

You keep that faith :>) You'll need to hang on to that faith for
a long long time !

This will be part of EA's all new quality Sim as you call it !

For the bitter losers, players can take their disputes off the track in
post-race confrontations, including opportunities to settle disputes
with NASCAR stars by racing cars through city streets.

NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup is slated for release August 31st, 2004.

by JP » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 03:03:52

LaBonte writing the manual for N2(if even true) has nothing to do with
being involved with *Nascar*. He's a driver, not the series management.

Tell me, how many races, cars, etc. over the years did you see Papy
stickers on ? Now, how many had EA stickers ?

Hint: answer to question number one is zero.

> Papy was always very involved with Nascar, until about the time Sierra
came
> along I think.

> I believe it was Bobby Labonte that practically WROTE the manuals for
Nascar
> Racing 2.

> That's another thing. Anyone else notice that the manuals went to shit
> about the time Sierra came into the fold ?

> -Larry

> > > > Already answered your question; it was amusing that EA was being
> > > blamed,
> > > > and I wanted to hear the "logic" behind that.

> > > > And no, I don't see any reasoning behind people blaming EA.

> > > I guess you can appreciate that if one is to blame Papy/Sierra/Vivendi
> > > management it would be because one thinks they either messed up & lost
> > > the NASCAR license, or decided it wasn't financially worth*** on
> > > to.

> > > The flip side of this is that EA may well have believed that in losing
> > > their F1 license to Sony they needed another 'big brand' license and
so
> > > 'poached' the NASCAR license from Papy by simply throwing money at
> > > NASCAR until they sold out. In this way EA would not only gain a
> > > potentially valuable license, they would also damage the only other
> > > serious competitor in that area, which it certainly did.

> > > Whether the NASCAR license is an adequate replacement for the F1 one
is
> > > debatable, but it's got to be better for EA than no license at all for
> > > any major form of motorsport, hence the justification for believing
> > > Papy's demise to be 'EA's fault'.

> > > Malc.

> > EA has been "throwing" money(sponsoring races, cars, pr events) at
> Nascar
> > for the last few years. How initiated that, EA or Nascar, who knows.
But
> > thats part of the point. Sierra/Papy, etc. could have done the same.
> They
> > chose not to, for whatever reason. But it was *their* choice.
> > Not poaching, when no one is prohibited from doing the same as anyone
> > else. Now if being financially "prohibited" from doing so is the reason
> > Sierra/Papy bowed out, big deal.

> > Thats their problem, not EA's.

by JP » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 03:05:08

Thanks, I will. Btw, careful rounding corners with those blinders on.

by **Gerry Aitke** » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 05:01:49

>>You keep that faith :>) You'll need to hang on to that faith for
>>a long long time !

>>This will be part of EA's all new quality Sim as you call it !

>>For the bitter losers, players can take their disputes off the track in
>>post-race confrontations, including opportunities to settle disputes
>>with NASCAR stars by racing cars through city streets.

>>NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup is slated for release August 31st, 2004.

> Thanks, I will. Btw, careful rounding corners with those blinders on.

If the next nascar sim is shit i suppose it want be EA's fault either!

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 04:41:05

Yes its true B.Labonte contributed to N2.

Many here on RAS complained bitterly that Sierra didnt do much if anything
to advertise it as a Sim and target specific markets instead of the kiddie
gamer. Papy is a developer not an advertiser thats up to the publisher.

Youre going down a dead end and its not fair to try and compare EA to
Sierra.

Mitch

by JP » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 06:15:23

> >>You keep that faith :>) You'll need to hang on to that faith for
> >>a long long time !

> >>This will be part of EA's all new quality Sim as you call it !

> >>For the bitter losers, players can take their disputes off the track in
> >>post-race confrontations, including opportunities to settle disputes
> >>with NASCAR stars by racing cars through city streets.

> >>NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup is slated for release August 31st, 2004.

> > Thanks, I will. Btw, careful rounding corners with those blinders on.

> If the next nascar sim is shit i suppose it want be EA's fault either!

Lol, I'm sure there's supposed to be a point here, but who knows what.

by JP » Sun, 01 Aug 2004 06:19:22

I know he contributed to N2, I still have that video i.e. somewhere.
"Writing the manual" is a bit more than contributing though, I would think.

Dead end ? Not fair ? Explain please.

p.s. I know Sierra/Papys ex-relationship, but since the statement was "Papy
was always very involved with Nascar.." figured might as well keep on the
same course.

> Yes its true B.Labonte contributed to N2.

> Many here on RAS complained bitterly that Sierra didnt do much if anything
> to advertise it as a Sim and target specific markets instead of the kiddie
> gamer. Papy is a developer not an advertiser thats up to the publisher.

> Youre going down a dead end and its not fair to try and compare EA to
> Sierra.

> Mitch

> > LaBonte writing the manual for N2(if even true) has nothing to do with
> > being involved with *Nascar*. He's a driver, not the series management.

> > Tell me, how many races, cars, etc. over the years did you see Papy
> > stickers on ? Now, how many had EA stickers ?

> > Hint: answer to question number one is zero.

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