rec.autos.simulators

Drive on!!!

Jammer (UK)

If these whingers don't like the game then here's a
suggestion.....DON'T PLAY IT!!

Personally I think it is an excellent game.

Mark McCall

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Visit The UK Home Automation Web Site...
http://www.btinternet.com/~uk.homeautomation/
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Hear, Hear.

All these prats whinge on about the same old stuff, poor frame rates, no
weather, etc, whinge, whine, moan.

Even with these omissions, the program is still THE best simulator out
there, beats the hell out of driving round in circles, (is that really
motor racing?).

These people should remember that no-one forces them to buy any
particular program, if they dont like it, dont buy it, or send it back.

I do think Microprose have let down there customers by not even
acknowledging the need for an upgrade, However, F1GP2 is the dogs
b*ll&cks of simulators, and will be the benchmark for all new simulators
to be compared against.

Enough said!!!

Peter  #:?)  Please note my real e-mail address below,

Since it involves motor cars going as fast as they can around a closed
circuit and the first guy to the finish line wins, yes its motor
racing....and some people actually like to see passes for position on
the track, Mr F1 snob.

Randy
(who drives GP2, ICR23D and NASCAR 2 and loves 'em all!)

Well, while you guys are kissin' Geoff Crammond's ass, I'll be sure to
let you know, he can kiss MY ass and he doesnt have to stand on anyones
shoulders to do it! I would kindly bend over!!

(Yeah thats right!) -David Gary-

Not really. I love F1 and I'm prepared to pay for that `in-the-cockpit' experience.
I don't spend as much time on it as I want to - but I enjoy every minute. Its cheap
as *** go & it won't kill me.

I'm no newbie, just an irregular poster. And GP2 is no beta game, its not perfect
F1 but thats as good as it gets for now. When you are never satisfied life must be a
bore. Expect less and be surprised.

A last commnent: I reckon most GP2 critics fall into one of the following
categories:
(1) Find it too difficult, consistently crash off, useless without driving aids.
Basically too impatient to get it right. My news for you is that the next generation
of GP sims are going to be closer to reality & therefore even more difficult. Why
write a GP sim that makes GP seem as easy as pushing a trolley around a store? If
you want to dice with Damon & Michael you better be shit hot.
(2) Are not really F1 fans, just general computer game players. Anyone who
is really crazy about F1 would know that GP2 is a labour of love by a brilliant
programmer. If you really love F1 then GP2 will capture your imagination.

nuff sed, I gotta take my Stewart Ford to practice at Interlagos.

-john stuart
 cape town
 sa

I wouldn't call it fantastic, but it seems solid from the races I've
run.

This is all true, but unfortunately some critical items were left out.
How about tire pressures and tire temperatures?  How about anti-roll
bars and brake bias being adjusted from the***pit?  What about fuel
mixtures?

This is true, but its hardly leaps and bounds over what's been done
for IndyCar and NASCAR.  GP2 is just fine here...but really, its in
the same ballpark as the other sims out there.

Again, considering that ICR2 and NASCAR provide this as well, how does
GP2 provide a "breakthrough"?

I agree with you.  GP2 is no beta game.  Its easily worth several
times the money paid for it.  Its the kind of game that doesn't become
shelfware for any F1 enthusiast, at least not permanently.  It just
grows with age and becomes stronger.  Yes there are things I'd like to
see in GP2, with 3D card support being top of the list, but I still
love this game and wouldn't give it up....The $45 I paid for it was a
steal.

There's also a balance.  Some of GP2's biggest ***s are also some
of its loudest critics.  To dismiss everyone who criticizes the game
as either not an F1 fan or someone who finds it too difficult is just
wrong.

Randy

Sorry, I should have said IN MY OPINION GP2 IS THE BEST SIM OUT THERE.

Something which can give an indication of a games/sims popularity is its
sales, GP2 has sold more in the UK than ANY OTHER driving game/sim,
(according to the pc press), I think that gives it a strong case for
being more popular?

If you actually watched F1 you would know that there is plenty of passing
involved, and plenty of action, thrills, spills, etc.
Why do you think it gets a bigger worldwide audience than any other motor
sport?

And is "ovals" really as taxing to drive as a "real" circuit? I don't
think so.
Nigel Mansell showed exactly how hard it is to drive round in circles, by
winning the world championship in his rookie year, enough said I think.

And no, I'm not an F1 snob, I watch indy car racing, karting, rallying
and nascar racing, as well as F1.
I enjoy ALL motor sports, However, this conference is about computer
SIMULATORS, and IN MY OPINION, GP2 is the best SIMULATOR out there.
It may not have the fastest frame rates, Yyaawwwnnn.
It may not have the best graphics, Yyaawwwnnn.
It may not have the best sound, Yyyaaawwwnnnn.
However, it does simulates motor racing better.

And when you whingers, moaners, and whiners get a real reason to slag off
GP2, then maybe I'll start listening, in the meantime, if you don't like
GP2, don't drive it, its simple really.

And no. I'm not a GP2 snob, I own indy car racing 1, Nascar 1,
Destruction Derby 1, The Need for Speed 1, Superkarts, Car & Driver, and
a few other driving games/sims which are not as well known, or as good as
the above, and I enjoy driving all of them, but they simply do not come
even close to the actual driving physics of GP2, and that is what
simulators are all about.

I also own F1GP1 as well as FIGP2, notice this series is the only one I
have bothered to upgrade to the newer version. Thats because FIGP1 was
better than all the others too!!!!

Microprose and Geoff Crammond may not give the best customer support in
the world, but they made two of the best driving simulators ever.

If you bother to reply, please try to come up with some new points,
rather than repeating all the same old rubbish again and again, and
again, and again....add infinitum.

Peter  #:?)  Please note my real e-mail address below,

Has GP2 sold more copies in the U.S. than NASCAR/2 from Papyrus?  If
yo'ure going to take just one locale and use it to determine which is
more popular, you're wasting your time.  Another example is Andretti
Racing and Formula One for the Playstation.  Andretti mopped the floor
with F1 here in the U.S., while Formula One mopped the floor with
Andretti in the UK and Europe -- I'll grant you Formula One is a far
superior sim than Andretti, but that's beside the point -- the issue
is popularity, and lets face it, any F1 sim is always going to do
better in the UK than an American series game.

I always love it when people presume to know what I do and do not
watch.  I watch every Formula One race, buddy.

First of all, kindly stick to the point being questioned.  I mention
passing for positions and you try to imply that I'm saying there are
is not "action, thrills, spills, etc".  Is your ability to respond to
my comment so weak that you have to pretend I said a bunch of stuff I
actually didn't?  Secondly, "plenty of passing involved" is a dramatic
overstatement.  You don't like ovals and that's your preference, but
I'd be willing to bet that if the passes for position in a NASCAR race
were counted and compared to the # of passes for position in a F1
race, you'd find that your "plenty of passing" drops off the radar
scope in terms of percentages.  Most F1 races are parades decided by
pit stop strategy and retirements.  Occassionally you see something
really special, like Villeneuve passing Schumacher on the outside at
high speed...and Hill and Villeneuve dicing in the season  opener  in
Brazil, but trying to defend F1 with "plenty of passing" (assuming you
mean passing a car for position, not blowing by a backmarker) is
absurd.  I love F1 races as I do NASCAR and CART races, but I value
different things in each series. I don't try to bash one in order to
build up the other.  They are very different kinds of races and cars,
and can be enjoyed for what they offer without being the
end-all-and-be-all-to-motorsports, and I wish some of the zealots out
there could open their minds enough to appreciate that.

Uh, gee, perhaps because its a worldwide sport?!  Duh.....  CART's got
a couple of non-North American races (Australia,Brazil), but that
hardly appeals to Europeans, or Japanese.

Oh bother....it couldn't just be that Nigel Mansell was (is?) a
superlative driver who would succeed in any situation, now could it?
Oh no...we couldn't have THAT be the reason.  By all means we have to
take the success of a driver and draw all KINDS Of grand sweeping
conclusions about the difficulty of the sport.    One might argue in
reverse why Jacques Villeneuve, a CART/oval graduate and winner of the
Indy 500 came so close to winning the championship in his first year
of F1, but that would be using the same bigoted, simplistic criteria
you're using and I'm not going to dignify your debate strategy by
engaging in it.

One wouldn't know it by the snobbishness of your posts.

No, it simulates F1 racing better.   As a stock car simulator, GP2 is
a huge failure.  As an IndyCar simulator, GP2 is a failure.  It
simulates what its meant to simulate and does a great job of it.  But
its got its faults....such as the poor replay system, no tire
temperatures, no in-cockpit car handling adjustments, no tire
pressures, unusable mirrors etc.

I have to ask you what a "real" reason would be?

Some of us really like it while not viewing it through rose colored
"see no evil" glasses like you.

You don't own ICR2 (particularly the Rendition enhanced one) or NASCAR
2?  If not you're badly out of date.  That would be like me saying I
like NASCAR 2 better than the original World Circuit.  As far as not
coming close to the actual driving physics of GP2....may I ask how
long you've been driving the actual cars so that you can tell us all
you're qualified to assess the "actual driving physics" of GP2 vs its
competitors?  Teams and years would be fine.

In other words..."don't bother me with the facts -- they would just
clutter up my preconceived notions".  And your comments about F1GP1
being better than all the others, and brazenly including the newer
versions of ICR2 and NASCAR 2 even though you admit you don't have
them, is pretty wild, even for you.

As long as you keep spewing up arguments based upon your GP2 religion
rather than some manner of open-mindedness and objectivity, I'll keep
shooting them down.  Any repetition on my part will simply be due to
the naive hope on my part that if something doesn't get through your
head the first time, perhaps you need it to be phrased differently.

Randy

On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:09:38 -0500, David Gary

I'm a "newbie" then? I think not. I throw my hand in with those who
praise GP2, it's the best yet.

Hmmm. First sim to offer damper adjustments, 3D physics, usable kerbs,
standard setting AI, locking brakes, full wheelspin model, partial
breakdowns etc etc etc.

That's right David, nothing......

If you have nothing better to do than troll this NG and insult people
that are happy with a purchase then you have to much time on your hands.

Example:

Question:    Why do you like GP2?

Answer:     Because I love Geof Crammond. !!!

That's the future of the arguments about GP2.

That sucks. I'm glad that I'll make a trip and give myself a brake of
that shit.

Fernando Assis

I have been trying to stay out of this useless "Let's flame GP2" thread, but
finally I must speak up.

I am in full agreement with you John, and I am also not a newbie, been here
since the newsgroup started, own most all the driving sims and games,
and recognize the great achievement that GP2 is.

No other sim has the detailed touches that make the driving in GP2 feel so
realistic, brakes locking, rear wheel spin when the throttle is applied
too hard, bouncing and tilting off of curbs, being able to do a
semi-controlled 180 degree spin to get back on the track (Nascar2 has an
inferior version of this feature IMHO)

All of these things are just a few of those detailed touches in GP2 that
keeps me coming back for more. Sure there are some problems with GP2, I
would love the promised Weather changes feature, and the damge model for
running into objects is way too forgiving, there seems to be a bug with
the replay feature, so I don't use it in a serious race, and of course
we have to bring up the framerate. Sure it is not blazing, but on my
P166 Matrox Mill, I get fast SVGA by just turning off clouds and a few
of the details in the mirror, note that these are details which are not
in ICR2 anyways, so being a big fan of that sim, I do not miss them.

What it comes down to is, whether you can overlook these few flaws in GP2
and instead concentrate on what a terrific F1 driving experience it gives.
If instead these people have too much time on their hands and want to spend
all of it posting article after article griping about all these flaws that
we all have heard about since the sim was first released, then it is their
loss, I for one prefer to spend that time on the track fighting Schumi for
the good line in the next corner (did I mention the great AI).

Face it, Microprose has abandoned this sim and has pissed me off too, but
all the ***ing and moaning about the same old things wrong with GP2
isn't going to change that fact, it only continues these useless and annoying
flame threads about the same old thing.

I for one will enjoy GP2 as is, and make Microprose pay when they release
their next sim, by not buying it, and if I absolutely must have it, their
poor treament of us GP2 customers this time will certainly increase the
likelyhood of people who will pirate GP3 when it comes out and not feel
guilty about it.

This bashing of people who happen to enjoy GP2 serves no purpose, WE are
not the ones who released the product, and WE certainly have no way to
patch it and fix the problems that it has.

Well guess thats about it, I hope some of these people end their useless
flaming and instead send e-mail to Microprose as I have telling them how
pissed-off I am about no patch, and that they have lost a loyal customer,
mentioning my loyalty to Papyrus due to their communication with
us on r.a.s. (keep up the good work Jim) might actually change something,
although I doubt it.

Cheers.

--John (A fan of ICR2, Nascar2, GP2, NFS etc....)
--
 Note: my real e-mail address is below. Delete the asterisks.
------------------------------+--------------------------

  Seattle, Washington USA.    |    http://www.racesimcentral.net/~jsilva

Hi Fernando,

I think there are many reasons for liking a game - be it the environment,
the subject, the company, or perhaps the producer/programmer.<g>

The reason we play these games will then come down to a basic fact:
that we play it because there's *something about it we like*.  Crammond
has met his goal in creating a game that people enjoy - not everyone
mind you - but I believe he's *hit closer to the mark* than other games
before it.

As much as I enjoy GP2, N2, or ICR2 doesn't mean that they're immune
from the recycle-bin...Each of them takes their turn getting wipe-deleted
from the drive to make room for whatever I'm having with at the moment.
;)

...and only a few short years ago we were playing on Ataris and Amigas.

Question: Why do YOU like GP2?  ;)

Best Regards,

Marc

Marc J. Nelson
Sim Racing News - USA
http://members.aol.com/simracing

Bla, Bla, BLa , BLa, Bla, Bla

The debate is what you mentioned above: poor frame rates, no
 weather, no multiplayer, no, etc. etc. etc.
Are you hear to stand up for GP2 as a top-of the line sim or compare  
F1 racing to that of Nascar and Indycar by their track designs(oval vs.
road courses)?
 This is rec.auto.simulators as it looks like you should have stumbled
upon
rec.auto.sports. In other words, whats your point? If you dont like oval
racing fine, but
dont try to say that GP2 is a superior sim because its not raced on an
oval, or we dont know
what the hell your trying to say or even take your statements with a
grain of salt for that matter.

Yeah right, send it back. Very few places take back opened software
nowadays.

I hope this isnt the "benchmark" for the rest of F1 sims to come! If it
is,
we are destined to watching a slide show by ourselves!!

Yeah, yeah, the infamous -DG-