rec.autos.simulators

N4 Drafting

Steephen Whit

N4 Drafting

by Steephen Whit » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:19:58

When racing online and you are asked to draft, what exactly does that mean

Do the cars take turns in overtaking eachother to get around faster and is
bumping on the straights allowed or frowned upon?

Dave Henri

N4 Drafting

by Dave Henri » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:52:36


  Drafting is two or more cars running nose-to-tail or inline to decrease
the ammount of air the 2nd car has to push.  This increases the speed of
both cars and allows them to move faster than one car alone or two cars that
are side-by-side.
  The two biggest tracks in N4 are Daytona and Talladega.  These two tracks
are where drafting works the best, especially since the engines have greatly
reduced horsepower at those big ovals.
  The best procedure is for the two cars to just stay in line as much as
possible.  If cars are constantly pulling out and passing, that requires
them both to break through the air without assistance and slows both down.

Bump drafting worked better with the older nascar sims like Nascar 3 but you
can do it, if you are careful in N4.  However, the best procedure while
drafting, if you are the 2nd car, is to gently tap your brake for a very
brief moment.  This tapping keeps you from hitting the lead car, possibly
upsetting his balance and speed, or it keeps you from having to pull out
from behind the first car and thereby losing more speed.
  (I should point out, that some users here are more comfortable letting off
the gas pedal for a brief moment instead of using the brakes, but this is
probably slightly riskier in that, if you lose too much momentum, the car
ahead may get away and 'break the draft' leaving you stranded until another
car or two come up from behind.)

Biz

N4 Drafting

by Biz » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:45:20

What Dave said, and GENTLE bumping on straights only is usually acceptable, as long as it doesn't
upset either car.  Also, I find it best to never lift the gas, but use the brake when necessary.
Bottom line is stay in line in lead pack for entire race, then start racing a few from the end.
you'll usually end up wioth good results that way
--
Biz

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
the....." - Ash


Uncle Feste

N4 Drafting

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:47:28


> What Dave said, and GENTLE bumping on straights only is usually acceptable, as long as it doesn't
> upset either car.  Also, I find it best to never lift the gas, but use the brake when necessary.
> Bottom line is stay in line in lead pack for entire race, then start racing a few from the end.
> you'll usually end up wioth good results that way

If you're a right foot braker like I am you'll have to lift the gas
instead of braking.  The best way is to lift only about 20% of the way
up & depress it fully again.  Sometimes you'll have to repeat this a few
times in a row (I call it "duty cycling" the throttle), but done right
you won't lose any ground.

HTH

--

Fester

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Joe Marque

N4 Drafting

by Joe Marque » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:41:21

Nice suggestion, I'll have to try this out.  I don't like left foot braking,
however, completely lifting  from the gas has been a recipe for getting left
in the dust.  How quickly do you "duty cycle" the throttle, i.e., how many
cycles per second?

--
Joe Marques



> > What Dave said, and GENTLE bumping on straights only is usually

acceptable, as long as it doesn't
the brake when necessary.
racing a few from the end.
Oti

N4 Drafting

by Oti » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:41:39




> > When racing online and you are asked to draft, what exactly does that mean

>   Drafting is two or more cars running nose-to-tail or inline to decrease
> the ammount of air the 2nd car has to push.  This increases the speed of
> both cars and allows them to move faster than one car alone or two cars that
> are side-by-side.
>   The two biggest tracks in N4 are Daytona and Talladega.  These two tracks
> are where drafting works the best, especially since the engines have greatly
> reduced horsepower at those big ovals.
>   The best procedure is for the two cars to just stay in line as much as
> possible.  If cars are constantly pulling out and passing, that requires
> them both to break through the air without assistance and slows both down.

> > Do the cars take turns in overtaking eachother to get around faster and is
> > bumping on the straights allowed or frowned upon?

> Bump drafting worked better with the older nascar sims like Nascar 3 but you
> can do it, if you are careful in N4.  

More of a vent then anything else.  'Bout a week ago, running an
online N2k2 race at Tally.  Two cars in the lead about 5 seconds up,
I'm in fourth with 3d right in front.  We're not gaining on them, so,
going down the back stretch I start bump drafting the guy in third.
Good taps too.  Not upsetting him.  Adding speed, we're making up
ground.  This guy TOTALLY blows a gasket and says I'm trying to spin
him out.  Next thing I know, I get booted from the server.

Really wish more people would do this at the online plate tracks.
Would prevent a lot of accidents going into the turns.  However, is
this braking method possible if you don't have a split axis
controller?  I know it won't work for the guy who was trying to race
online via keyboard last night.

Uncle Feste

N4 Drafting

by Uncle Feste » Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:55:23


> Nice suggestion, I'll have to try this out.  I don't like left foot braking,
> however, completely lifting  from the gas has been a recipe for getting left
> in the dust.  How quickly do you "duty cycle" the throttle, i.e., how many
> cycles per second?

I do this fairly quickly but only until I can judge that I'll no longer
hit the driver in front.  For offline practice before you try this
online, set up a plate track with the AI at about 90% or so.  Shouldn't
take long to get the hang of it.  :-)

--

Fester

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Admi

N4 Drafting

by Admi » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:04:51




> > When racing online and you are asked to draft, what exactly does that
mean

>   Drafting is two or more cars running nose-to-tail or inline to decrease
> the ammount of air the 2nd car has to push.  This increases the speed of
> both cars and allows them to move faster than one car alone or two cars
that
> are side-by-side.
>   The two biggest tracks in N4 are Daytona and Talladega.  These two
tracks
> are where drafting works the best, especially since the engines have
greatly
> reduced horsepower at those big ovals.
>   The best procedure is for the two cars to just stay in line as much as
> possible.  If cars are constantly pulling out and passing, that requires
> them both to break through the air without assistance and slows both down.

> > Do the cars take turns in overtaking eachother to get around faster and
is
> > bumping on the straights allowed or frowned upon?

> Bump drafting worked better with the older nascar sims like Nascar 3 but
you
> can do it, if you are careful in N4.  However, the best procedure while
> drafting, if you are the 2nd car, is to gently tap your brake for a very
> brief moment.  This tapping keeps you from hitting the lead car, possibly
> upsetting his balance and speed, or it keeps you from having to pull out
> from behind the first car and thereby losing more speed.
>   (I should point out, that some users here are more comfortable letting
off
> the gas pedal for a brief moment instead of using the brakes, but this is
> probably slightly riskier in that, if you lose too much momentum, the car
> ahead may get away and 'break the draft' leaving you stranded until
another
> car or two come up from behind.)

Dave here is correct IMO, braking with a split axis setup is by far the best
way to keep the engine revs up without plowing into whomever it may be that
you are closing on (and you ARE closing on them if you are drafting
properly).

If you don't have split axis, you can try both ways, lifting or braking, as
applying the brakes in non-split axis is also lifting the gas, causing
engine revs to decrease costing you precious momentum.

Drafting is THE only way to fly at Daytona and Talladega with the latest set
of aero rules, small plates and such.

Haqsa

N4 Drafting

by Haqsa » Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:38:45

You don't actually have to convert to left foot braking all of the time
in order to do the tapdance thing when drafting.  Just try it sometime,
maybe offline first - tapping lightly on the brake with the left foot to
take off speed, but still using the right foot for normal braking.  I
think a lot of real drivers do this, and it's not nearly as hard to
learn as full time left foot braking.



> > What Dave said, and GENTLE bumping on straights only is usually

acceptable, as long as it doesn't
use the brake when necessary.
racing a few from the end.
jason moy

N4 Drafting

by jason moy » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:01:43


>   (I should point out, that some users here are more comfortable letting off
> the gas pedal for a brief moment instead of using the brakes, but this is
> probably slightly riskier in that, if you lose too much momentum, the car
> ahead may get away and 'break the draft' leaving you stranded until another
> car or two come up from behind.)

Braking while keeping the gas all the way down also keeps the RPM's
up, which is something you need to seriously keep in mind at the plate
tracks where you're struggling for every bit of acceleration you can
get.

Jason

David G Fishe

N4 Drafting

by David G Fishe » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:11:25

FWIW, I was a right foot braker up until about a year ago. At first it
seemed difficult and felt completely wrong and went against all my
instincts. It QUICKLY became easier though. Almost overnight. Now, I would
never go back to right foot braking because it feels very inefficient. It's
basically just something you have to force to do for awhile and then it
comes naturally.

David G Fisher


> You don't actually have to convert to left foot braking all of the time
> in order to do the tapdance thing when drafting.  Just try it sometime,
> maybe offline first - tapping lightly on the brake with the left foot to
> take off speed, but still using the right foot for normal braking.  I
> think a lot of real drivers do this, and it's not nearly as hard to
> learn as full time left foot braking.




> > > What Dave said, and GENTLE bumping on straights only is usually
> acceptable, as long as it doesn't
> > > upset either car.  Also, I find it best to never lift the gas, but
> use the brake when necessary.
> > > Bottom line is stay in line in lead pack for entire race, then start
> racing a few from the end.
> > > you'll usually end up wioth good results that way

> > If you're a right foot braker like I am you'll have to lift the gas
> > instead of braking.  The best way is to lift only about 20% of the way
> > up & depress it fully again.  Sometimes you'll have to repeat this a
> few
> > times in a row (I call it "duty cycling" the throttle), but done right
> > you won't lose any ground.

> > HTH

> > --

> > Fester

> > "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government
> has
> > is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't
> enough
> > criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
> > that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

> > --Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Uncle Feste

N4 Drafting

by Uncle Feste » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:18:53


> FWIW, I was a right foot braker up until about a year ago. At first it
> seemed difficult and felt completely wrong and went against all my
> instincts. It QUICKLY became easier though. Almost overnight. Now, I would
> never go back to right foot braking because it feels very inefficient. It's
> basically just something you have to force to do for awhile and then it
> comes naturally.

I agree that right foot braking is a handicap.  Hell, you saw how badly
it affects me at Watkins Glen.  I would never even attempt an online
Sears Point race, ever.  My problem adapting to left foot braking is
this:  I have a real comfortable chair.  I'm not changing for
anyone/anything.  It has wheels that roll easily.  It also rocks back
easily.  Picture in your mind the comedy that ensues when using both
feet driving.  :-)

--
Fester

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Dave Henri

N4 Drafting

by Dave Henri » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:38:15

"Uncle Fester"
 I have a real comfortable chair.  I'm not changing for
  I have just two words for you Fes...
Duct tape...aka 200mph tape...aka Helicopter tape.. Tape that comfy chair to
da floor.....
dave henrie

Tom Pabs

N4 Drafting

by Tom Pabs » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:17:12

I found that "lifting" needed to be consistent and at regular
intervals.....around the entire track...not just in the turn and when
catching the drafting partner in front of you.

What I do...and this has worked great since the TEN "Degafest" days......is
lift about 5% throttle...then back on full.....its a very, very quick
lift....1/2 second maybe........every 5 to 10 seconds....all the way around
the track.....whether it I look to be closing on the car in front or not.
Its a habit when drafting at both Tally and Daytona....I don't even have to
think about it anymore.  With this technique.....I can stay literally glued
to the rear bumper of the car in front.....lap after lap after lap......and
it has never caused a "draft break" at any time.

If I need to take a little more speed off.....like through the center of a
turn.....then I let my car drift up a half-lane high...and turning it back
down scrubs just enough speed off......to do the trick.  I swear a two-foot
chain link between the two cars wouldn't do a better job of keeping us
"hooked" than this combo technique for me.  Its not hard to learn....try it
offline where the AI run more consistently to perfect the technique.

Another thing that helps a lot (especially at Tally for some reason)....is
to anticipate your front draft partner's "turn in" and do yours just a tick
sooner than he does.  This insures you enter the turn under his line....easy
to then let your car drift up the half lane....then back down which scrubs a
consistent and controllable amount of speed off to stay in tow.  It also
means you are not "reacting" to his turn in....in which case you'd always be
later than him and that can cause you to drift up a full lane or
more.....bad idea.  I watch for guys in front of me (when 3rd in the draft)
that are turning in "after" the front car.  I know they will do it at least
once.....too late...and I gott'em!  If I turn in just a "tick" before the
lead car....and the second car turns in after him.....then in less than a
"blink of an eye"...I'm under him or in front of him...and he gets rolled
back a spot.  You have to stay on your toes for this.....but heck, racing is
about staying on your toes...its no Sunday joyride out there!

I'm primarily a road course driver.....so this super-speedway stuff is not
natural to me.  I've tried to read every book and discussion about drafting
and passing techniques I can find.  This is pretty much what I've gleaned
out of the stuff I've read....what the guys do who are famous for winning on
the super-speedways.  I didn't invent any of it....I just copied it.

Tom


acceptable, as long as it doesn't
brake when necessary.
racing a few from the end.

> you'll usually end up wioth good results that way
> --
> Biz

> "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand
> alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and
> the....." - Ash



> > When racing online and you are asked to draft, what exactly does that
mean

> > Do the cars take turns in overtaking eachother to get around faster and
is
> > bumping on the straights allowed or frowned upon?

Tom Pabs

N4 Drafting

by Tom Pabs » Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:28:16

Uncle Fester...

Man, I know EXACTLY what you mean.  I had a chair like that ....used it for
years......and since we didn't have clutches....right foot braking was easy.

But...here's what I found worked to let me keep my chair....and still use
two feet on the pedals (I needed to do this when GPL came along):

**Chair sliding on wheels:  I replaced one of the wheels with a block of
wood....with a thick *** pad under it.  Use a "wheel pin" off an old
office chair wheel....or you can usually buy replacement wheels at an office
supply store....remove the wheel and drill a hole in the wood and put the
wheel pin in it.  It takes two seconds to change this out when you want to
go racing in your desk chair....and now it won't slide on you at all.  This
really does work great.

**Chair rocking:  I looked under my chair and found a place in the pivot
brackets where if I slid a 3/8's bolt....about 3 inches long in....it would
"lock" the chair and keep it from rocking.  I've never seen an office chair
that this couldn't be done.  Look under yours....bet you there's an easy
"lock" spot on yours too!

Hope this helps you out....and let's you keep your comfy chair!

Tom



> > FWIW, I was a right foot braker up until about a year ago. At first it
> > seemed difficult and felt completely wrong and went against all my
> > instincts. It QUICKLY became easier though. Almost overnight. Now, I
would
> > never go back to right foot braking because it feels very inefficient.
It's
> > basically just something you have to force to do for awhile and then it
> > comes naturally.

> I agree that right foot braking is a handicap.  Hell, you saw how badly
> it affects me at Watkins Glen.  I would never even attempt an online
> Sears Point race, ever.  My problem adapting to left foot braking is
> this:  I have a real comfortable chair.  I'm not changing for
> anyone/anything.  It has wheels that roll easily.  It also rocks back
> easily.  Picture in your mind the comedy that ensues when using both
> feet driving.  :-)

> --
> Fester

> "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has
> is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough
> criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime
> that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

> --Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged


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