rec.autos.simulators

by **ymenar** » Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>THAT WASN'T ENGLISH ........ ITS AMERICAN...... AND THE HOME OF
DRAGRACING!!!
>(LIBERTY...JUSTICE..... APPLE PIE,AND THE HOLE SHOT)AND THE ONLY TORTURE
I'LL
>EVER KNOW IS LIVING SO CLOSE TO "SUMMIT RACING"(THE OBJECT OF OUR
AFFECTION)

>SO THANK FOR PLAYING AND COME AGAIN

>DADDY-O
>(IM NOT LOUD?....... YOU'RE JUST STANDING TO CLOSE [;-)>+)

LOL Bruce, I'm waiting for a good and funny reply to make my day here on
r.a.s.

I don't know why, but I feel sorry for this guy. He looks... how can I
say... he's too naive I think here and an obvious target for some of the
"Bruce's special attacks".

But hey "ITS AMERICAN", Im happy I don't live there, or sorry, I don't live
near this guy.

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Randy Magrude** » Fri, 19 Jun 1998 04:00:00

I think some of it has to do with replay. The memory and hard drive a PC
aren't present, and they wanted to show you as much replay as possible. By
having 2-3 lap races, on average, you can watch an entire race.

Not sure what you're accusing me of.

Whatever. I'm not going to try to convince you to like something you don't
like. I think the physics model is fantastic, as is the selection of cars
and customization options. If the damage model prevents you from
appreciating some of the stronger aspects of the simulation, then that's a
shame, but its your choice.

Randy

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

> >Ewww look out everybody... "5" laps. <whoaa>. I still don't know who
> >took the decision for those short sprint races. It is worse than those
> dega
> >3% races on the NROS <vbg>. But yes I agree those endurance are fun, but
> I
> >would eliminate the pause button. Heck you can't pause on the NROS.

> I think some of it has to do with replay. The memory and hard drive a PC
> aren't present, and they wanted to show you as much replay as possible. By
> having 2-3 lap races, on average, you can watch an entire race.

I like replays in a sim, but being only able to race sprint races
because of
the replay, I'd turn them off (like in F1RS). But they probably want to
show
off their fancy graphics, so you can't?

Well, you asked in another post, if sims with an OPTION to be arcady
should
be no longer called sims. Of course, the question was nonsense...

Now you get this crusader statement out again. We are just exchanging
opinions,
but in the end we should'nt be angry, if the other one doesn't agree.

BTW, one thing in your editorial on Digitalsports really surprised me.
The worst thing I experienced in Motorhead (the arcade racer! ;^) was,
that
when you crash, the AI just stops about 300 meters ahead of you and
waits for
you... Do you really think, this should happen in a sim? I'd rather play
with
AI level than having Villeneuve wait for me on the track...

l8er
ronny

--
Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
kiddo?"

|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>snip

>>Okay, aside from the damage model issue, what is "arcadey" about it?

>The "force field"***pit?

Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one
SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know ..
trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

I know so.

>Glad YOU think so mate!

>> >That's like saying that, to the vast majority of we humans, AIDS is
>> >irrelevant.

>> It is.

>> Randy
>> Randy Magruder
>> Contributing Reviewer
>> Digital Sportspage
>> http://www.digitalsports.com

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Randy Magrud** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>I like replays in a sim, but being only able to race sprint races
>because of the replay, I'd turn them off (like in F1RS). But they probably want to
>show off their fancy graphics, so you can't?

Yup.

Yeah, I know. I'm still not sure what you're accusing me of here. It
was a hypothetical question.

I'm not angry.

The issue was one of AI fallibility. If you were racing with
competitors who were approximately as fast as you are, and who on
average made about the same # of mistakes, you could still win by
driving just a bit faster and making a few less mistakes. The issue
is one of competitiveness. Of course when racing Villeneuve you're
not going to see many stupid mistakes (although some F1 fans could
argue he's really been doing himself in lately!), but I'm talking more
about the racing ladder whereby you build up through the series racing
comparable competition.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **ymenar** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Randy Magruder wrote

Hmmm Randy... are you saying that :

"Since Im too good for the game and I never crash, a damage model is
irrelevant since I never touch the walls or other cars..."

Hmmm...

It's a supposition, and with my poor English knowledge I was wondering if my
sentence was indeed a good resume of the post I was replying to..

(hehe)

- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-)
- Official Mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
- Member of the r.a.s. Ego-maniac club
- Excuse me for my English (I'm French speaking)
- Excuse me for being provocative (I'm dumb speaking)
- "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."--

by **Randy Magrude** » Sat, 20 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Yes, the problem is your english. Note I did not say "irrelevant". I said
it was not "a huge deal", therefore its a relevant and valid criticism, but
its "not a huge deal". Got it?

Secondly, in the***pit view we're talking about something that is a visual
issue more than anything else, rather than a handling/physics issue such as
damage. Apples and oranges.

Randy

by **Janne Hosa** » Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>>The "force field"***pit?

>Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one
>SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know ..
>trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc.

Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see
objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them
directly all the time.

by **Randy Magrud** » Sun, 21 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>>>The "force field"***pit?

>>Not a huge deal, since I spend my time looking at the things one
>>SHOULD be looking at instead of the body work of my car, you know ..
>>trivial little things like the apex of the next corner, the exit, etc.

>Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see
>objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them
>directly all the time.

Fine, but the question really is, how much of a difference does it
really make?!

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Ronald Stoe** » Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:00:00

snip
> >Most of us are not suffering from tunnel vision. We can still see
> >objects with the corner of our eyes even if we are not staring at them
> >directly all the time.

> Fine, but the question really is, how much of a difference does it
> really make?!

It's big, if you want simulated reality, it's small, if you can live
with
some, well, magic... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:00:00

You live with a certain amount of, well, magic, in every simulator.
We could go through sim by sim and find that simulated reality just
isn't happening in some aspects of EVERY sim.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Ronald Stoe** » Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:00:00

> >> Fine, but the question really is, how much of a difference does it
> >> really make?!

> >It's big, if you want simulated reality, it's small, if you can live
> >with some, well, magic... ;^)

> You live with a certain amount of, well, magic, in every simulator.
> We could go through sim by sim and find that simulated reality just
> isn't happening in some aspects of EVERY sim.

We are playing ping pong right now... ;^) Of course, PC have limits, so
they
can't simulate reality like I (or you?) would like. But to NOT implement
things you COULD implement with todays PCs, makes some games less
enjoyable
to me...IMHO, of course!

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 22 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>We are playing ping pong right now... ;^) Of course, PC have limits,

as does the Playstation. Its a miracle Gran Turismo could be done at
all on the thing considering its a 33 MHz machine with a 66 MHz
graphics processor. Compare this to your typical 3D accelerated
computer and its a pretty amazing feat.

My criteria would differ a bit if it were a PC game. I'd expect longer
replays, longer races, full***pit view, etc. Things I'd forgive
for a Playstation title I would really not in a PC title.

That having been said, I'd be amazed if we'd see a real damage model
in any PC version of Gran Turismo, simply because I bet the car
companies wouldn't allow it in their licensing agreements.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/