rec.autos.simulators

by **Brent Wils** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran Tourismo.
The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for steering.
Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to control
the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste of
time. You had might as well use the game pads.

Shame about the pathetic Arcade car control, as this is one hell of a fun Game!
Maybe someone will do PC version with proper analog control! Please!!!!

--
____________________________________________________________

Christchurch, New Zealand http://www.racesimcentral.net/~bdwilso

by **Janne Hosa** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>friend who is pretty well respected as a *** PC simmer here on
>the group and she just bought a used Playstation, a Mad Catz and Gran
>Turismo and claims that the physics model is "the best I've seen,
>except for GPL's. It's way better than anything else. It makes F1RS,
>CPR, MTM2, ICR2, N2 seem crude by comparison". She goes on, but that
>right there says quite a bit, at least as far as the better sims like

It says a lot about what she doesn't know, like that F1 cars don't
behave like street legal cars (how else could she compare GT to a F1
or Cart game?), and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.
In Gran Turismo they don't, and that is very crude as far as realism
is concerned.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Well, to each his own, I always say but in my opinion it is just another
flashy arcade. And "yes", I have tried it and cannot believe that you
are actually comparing it to GPL!!!

> >BH wrote
> >>So GT is that much better than N2, MTM 2 and TOCA 1? That I'd have to buy a
> >>whole new system just to race this game (on a low rez tv no doubt). What
> >>makes GT that much better than the three I listed above? The 3 represent
> >>different styles of racing to cover the spectrum of racing models well.

> >Gran Turismo is only a game. Check out the reviews and preview all around
> >the Internet. They are saying great thing about it, but nobody wanted to
> >compare it to racing simulators, and tell it's the "best racing game ever
> >made".

> I'll happily compare it to any racing simulator you care to mention.
> I'd agree with Alison in that its not quite as good as GPL, but its
> easily more sophisticated than any other PC sim I've seen.

> Randy
> Randy Magruder
> Contributing Reviewer
> Digital Sportspage
> http://www.digitalsports.com

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>Heck don't tell me that you can compare GT, where you can easily do some
>fender-bagging, wall-hitting, sliding, wild maneuvering and still win a race
>to most of the Papyrus simulators (here for me it's GPL, Nascar2, Icr2,
>SODA). It's just not "that".

Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator?

Randy

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>>Buy the sony dual analog pad instead of a wheel !!! It kicks ass !! I had a
>>psx but i sold it to my brother before grand turismo was out. I told him to
>>buy it & let me play :)

>The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran Tourismo.
>The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for steering.
>Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to control
>the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste of
>time. You had might as well use the game pads.

Apparently you just lack the finesse needed to really get the most out
of the dual analog pads. The pads are full analog and if you develop
a light touch you can do anything you want with them.

Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again.

Randy

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>>friend who is pretty well respected as a *** PC simmer here on
>>the group and she just bought a used Playstation, a Mad Catz and Gran
>>Turismo and claims that the physics model is "the best I've seen,
>>except for GPL's. It's way better than anything else. It makes F1RS,
>>CPR, MTM2, ICR2, N2 seem crude by comparison". She goes on, but that
>>right there says quite a bit, at least as far as the better sims like

>It says a lot about what she doesn't know, like that F1 cars don't
>behave like street legal cars (how else could she compare GT to a F1
>or Cart game?),

don't even think of trying to insult her like that. She absolutely
DOES know the difference, but she and I both can appreciate just how
sophisticated the physics model in GT is. Yes, it behaves differently
than an F1 car, but there is a lot of sublety in the GT physics model
in ways that I don't see in F1RS.

another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
car handles is wayyyy more important.

Randy

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>Well, to each his own, I always say but in my opinion it is just another
>flashy arcade. And "yes", I have tried it and cannot believe that you
>are actually comparing it to GPL!!!

Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **F1Filt** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

I just got GT and a "Dual-Shock" analog controller and cant say the same thing.
Granded the sticks are a bit on the sensitive side; but they are definately
not 'on/off' .

Havent tried it with my MadCatz wheel yet, but I can guess it is just as good
but without the feedback of the "Dual-Shock" (which is starting to spoil me
btw). The feedback feature of the controller really does make a difference.

F1Filter

> 

> 

>> 
>>>Buy the sony dual analog pad instead of a wheel !!! It kicks ass !! I had
>a 
>>>psx but i sold it to my brother before grand turismo was out. I told him
>to 
>>>buy it & let me play :) 
>> 
>>The Sony Analog pads are beyond a joke for controlling a car in Gran
>Tourismo. 
>>The "analog" control consists of 2 left and 2 right positions for
>steering. 
>>Ie. you can have either full lock or partial turning, which means to
>control 
>>the car you are just jerking the thing on/off like a game pad. Total waste
>of 
>>time. You had might as well use the game pads. 
> 
>Apparently you just lack the finesse needed to really get the most out 
>of the dual analog pads. The pads are full analog and if you develop 
>a light touch you can do anything you want with them. 
> 
>>Shame about the pathetic Arcade car control, as this is one hell of a fun
>Game! 
>>Maybe someone will do PC version with proper analog control! Please!!!! 
> 
>Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again. 
> 
>Randy 
> 
> 
>Randy Magruder 
>Contributing Reviewer 
>Digital Sportspage 
>http://www.digitalsports.com 
> 
> 
>

by **Marc J. Nelso** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

> Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator?

No...at least not a NASCAR simulator, since you've removed a
key element of what you're attempting to simulate - the risk
of damage while driving on the edge. Remove damage, and you're
basically driving a pinball machine: smacking walls, bouncing
off opponents, and simply racking-up points.

Of course, it's all apples and oranges, and you and I (as I'm
sure several others) could go toe-to-toe on where to draw the
line on where a sim ends - and the arcade game begins. Funny
thing, I think everyone's line will be just a tad different. ;)

Cheers!

Marc

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by **Randy Magrud** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>> Turn damage off on NASCAR 2. Is it still a simulator?

>No...at least not a NASCAR simulator, since you've removed a
>key element of what you're attempting to simulate - the risk
>of damage while driving on the edge. Remove damage, and you're
>basically driving a pinball machine: smacking walls, bouncing
>off opponents, and simply racking-up points.

>Of course, it's all apples and oranges, and you and I (as I'm
>sure several others) could go toe-to-toe on where to draw the
>line on where a sim ends - and the arcade game begins. Funny
>thing, I think everyone's line will be just a tad different. ;)

Yeah, we've had this argument before <G>

Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com

by **David Mast** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>Puhlease. Get a Mad Catz wheel and try again.

There is also the "Ultra Racer" from "Performance". A handheld controller
which has a ~2" dia analog wheel with +/- 90 degrees rotation, an analog
trigger that serves as throttle, an analog button for brakes, another analog
button which serves no added purpose here and the usual many discrete buttons.
I'm trying one out and so far I think it is pretty good, albeit not a full
wheel/pedal setup. Walmart has it for $30.

by **David Mast** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

>>and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.

>another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
>but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
>car handles is wayyyy more important.

I'm hot and cold on this one. I used to race GP2 with damage disabled. I
never got any good at ICR or ICR2 with damage enabled (though I'd occasionally
try). With F1RS, I've made a concerted effor to play with damage on. While
very frustrating at times, I find it really adds to the racing experience and,
yes, simulation.

Thing is, even if you turn damage off in any of these games, the AI cars act
like it is still on (as it is for them), which encourages the player to act
accordingly. OTOH, in the TOCA demo, I find myself bumping and bashing to my
heart's desire. Similar with Gran Tourismo, but there I find it frustrating.
The racing would be so much more fun for me if it was realistic (ie, not
demolition derby). I can imagine I might get so frustrated with it that I
might just end out hot lapping.

In summary, the handling may be spot on, but the racing part is extremely
arcadish.

by **Ronald Stoe** » Mon, 15 Jun 1998 04:00:00

snip

> >and that in real life cars do take damage in crashes.

> another damage-obsessed fan. Okay, you have a right to your opinion,
> but I don't think damage is near as important as you do. How the
> car handles is wayyyy more important.

"Look, Daddy, this flight sim has a GREAT flight physics model, and
look,
I can bounce off of this mountain, slide into the valley and take off
again!!"

Oooh, the e***ment doesn't stop... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.racesimcentral.net/;

|\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather,
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep.
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car,
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:00:00

Why?

> Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.

--
Regards,
Bruce.
----------
The GP Legends Historic Motor Racing Club is located at:-
http://www.netspeed.com.au/brucek/legends/

by **Randy Magrud** » Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:00:00

So I have some idea as to what it was you experienced, what kind of
control device was used. Obviously your opinion of the game is going
to be colored by what you did and how you controlled it. If I fired
up F1RS and drove it in arcade mode with a keyboard I wouldn't be all
that impressed.

>Why?

>> Tell me what you did with GT and what you used to control it.

Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com