rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Spanish GP

Eldre

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Eldre » Wed, 07 May 2003 21:31:45

I like, Raikonnen, but who says anyone HAS to give him room?  It's not like
Wilson ran him into the wall, or off the track...

Eldred
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Joachim Trens

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Joachim Trens » Thu, 08 May 2003 00:46:22

Hehe, I didn't say Raikonnen was right. I think if he really said what I
understood, it doesn't make him look too good, especially since it doesn't
coincide with the replay as I saw it.

Achim


mark.seer

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by mark.seer » Thu, 08 May 2003 05:26:25


Simple. A Ferrari was leading..

MS

mark.seer

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by mark.seer » Thu, 08 May 2003 05:28:37




> > Ok, so WHY didn't they throw the red flag?!?  A crash on the grid should
> have
> > been enough to stop the race...
> > They must be taking tips from NASCAR's managament... :-(

> A crash at the BACK of the grid that had very little impact on anything
> except Pizzonia's Jag. It was cleaned up after 5 laps under yellow. I
don't
> see a big problem there.

They never saw a problem at Imola either in '94 when Lehto had his startline
accident. They ran the pace car there and  Senna was dead on the first
hotlap afterwards as a result of lower tyre pressures and grounding out.

MS

redTe

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by redTe » Thu, 08 May 2003 05:38:47

Perhaps if we all had this fantastic ability to foresee every eventuality
the world would be a better place, eh ? Where motor racing could involve no
actual risks to anybody and we could all go through out entire lives secure
in the knowledge that we are being cared for at every step of the way.
No thanks. Senna knew the risks. Senna was the best. He lived life as it
should be lived. Your version sucks.

redTe

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by redTe » Thu, 08 May 2003 05:39:50




> > Ok, so WHY didn't they throw the red flag?!?

> Simple. A Ferrari was leading..

Your the one who's simple.
Ferrari's are out of favour. Haven't you been following proceedings in F1
lately ?
Haqsa

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Haqsa » Thu, 08 May 2003 09:11:41

He f*cked up.  However I would like to point out that if they had started
him from the pits this wouldn't have happened.  Why was he allowed to start
from the back when, in previous races this year, people who did not qualify
had to start from the pits?  This may sound like 20/20 hindsight but there
is more to it than that.  To me the purpose of the new qualifying rules is
to make sure that the order people start in is related to the order in which
their race pace will fall, so that there is more likely to be a clean start
and clean first few laps.  If that's true, anyone who doesn't qualify should
start from the pits to make sure they aren't a factor in the race start.
Kimi could have just as easily rammed Wilson even if Wilson hadn't stopped,
having a fast car start at the back of the field is a bad idea, IMO.  Again,
Kimi was at fault, but the incident points to a potential weakness in the
current rules.


Eldre

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Eldre » Thu, 08 May 2003 11:37:17





>> Ok, so WHY didn't they throw the red flag?!?

>Simple. A Ferrari was leading..

Nah, I'd hate to think that.  It just seems inconsistent, though.  Starting
grid crash, car dead in the middle of the fastest straight, pieces of
carbon-fiber everywhere, and no flag.  In some cases, cars crash and slide WAY
off the track, and they throw the red.  WTF is the rule again?
I'm just glad Kimi's crash wasn't any worse - remember Riccardo Paletti?

Eldred
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Eldre

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Eldre » Thu, 08 May 2003 11:37:18



>> A crash at the BACK of the grid that had very little impact on anything
>> except Pizzonia's Jag. It was cleaned up after 5 laps under yellow. I
>don't
>> see a big problem there.

>They never saw a problem at Imola either in '94 when Lehto had his startline
>accident. They ran the pace car there and  Senna was dead on the first
>hotlap afterwards as a result of lower tyre pressures and grounding out.

I'm guessing that the tires would be colder on the original standing start.
Even at pace speed, I'm sure the drivers can build a bit of heat in the tires.

Eldred
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Pasi Rahikain

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Pasi Rahikain » Thu, 08 May 2003 15:49:23




>>> A crash at the BACK of the grid that had very little impact on anything
>>> except Pizzonia's Jag. It was cleaned up after 5 laps under yellow. I
>>don't
>>> see a big problem there.

>>They never saw a problem at Imola either in '94 when Lehto had his startline
>>accident. They ran the pace car there and  Senna was dead on the first
>>hotlap afterwards as a result of lower tyre pressures and grounding out.

>I'm guessing that the tires would be colder on the original standing start.
>Even at pace speed, I'm sure the drivers can build a bit of heat in the tires.

>Eldred

Mark has obviously seen the 60 seconds documentary about the reason for
Senna's accident. That documentary speculated that the accident was caused
because of driving behind pace-car for so many laps that tires cooled down and
as a result Senna's car lowered enough to make a ground contact at tamburello
(sparks can been seen just before the accident), air couldn't flow below car and
all ground effect was lost which made the car uncontrollable.
Matt Knutse

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Matt Knutse » Thu, 08 May 2003 17:00:46


I think the official reason for Senna's crash was that his specially-made
steering column snapped - that was the basis of the trial against P. Head
and F.Williams.

/Matt

Achi

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Achi » Thu, 08 May 2003 17:33:12


Good point.

OTOH, even in sim racing we learn that when you're behind others - and the
more so when you're behind _everyone_ else - you don't go for a quick
start, but only drive as fast as the visible track portion ahead of you
permits, prepared to brake for anything that might happen in front of you.

If you can't see what's happening ahead of you, you just can't do a
flat-out start.

This mistake keeps being made again and again in both real and sim racing,
but it's still a very easily avoidable driver error someone in a top-notch
racecar like a McLaren F1 shouldn't make.

--
Achim

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Iain Mackenzi

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Iain Mackenzi » Thu, 08 May 2003 21:37:00

How is that any different to the old rules?  The fact is that the old rules
did a better job because with the new rules freak weather or a slight
mistake can turn the grid on its head!  When there were 12 laps, there was
plenty time for the best to naturally come to the top, and hence the grid
would represent the 'pace order' better than the currnet lottery.  There is
of course the often-mentioned fuel aspect now, but that is over-stated as
almost every team was on a 3 stop strategy anyway in Spain.

Iain

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Dave Henri

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Dave Henri » Thu, 08 May 2003 22:09:32


  back then cars rountinely scrapped bottom.  Although at the speed they
traveled through Tamborello, a large bump could have easily thrown the car.  
But I do beleive the investogators focused on the steering colum
modifications Senna asked the Williams Engineers to preform.
dave henrie

Richard S Becket

Spoiler - Spanish GP

by Richard S Becket » Thu, 08 May 2003 22:27:22


With the old rules, the fastest cars in qualifying will be at the front of
the grid.

When the race started, the front row guys could have decided to do a 1 stop
race strategy, whilst the 2nd row could have opted for a 3 stop strategy.

This means that at the start of the race, the cars on the second row are
quicker than those on the front row.

With the new rules, the cars that will be quicker at the start of the race
will be at the front.

You _know_ it makes sense ;-)

R.


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