rec.autos.simulators

Ok, what's wrong with the tracks this time? They seem near perfect to
me, at the least they are way better than so far seen in a racing sim.
Imho the tracks are the most stunning aspect of F1RC.

Sound isn't THAT bad. When I got the demo I was disappointed with the
sound. I don't if they either changed it or that I simply got used to
it, but now it's not bad. Especially watching a replay with EAX on
sounds simply fantastic.

Yup, BAD. I can only hope this will be fixed with a patch, with this
AI all the rest can be perfect, but what's the use of a beautifull
racing game without a good AI or decent multiplayer?

Yup, BAD. I can only hope this will be fixed with a patch, with this
multiplayer all the rest can be perfect, but what's the use of a
beautifull racing game without a good AI or decent multiplayer?

Not as good as seen in GPL or N4, but it's not that bad. Only
configuring split-axis is a pain in the ass.

Yep

Feels very good to me (DFG, not a fact, just an opinion.)
The only thing I'm really having a problem with is the lack of feeling
when you're about to loose the car.
In GPL you notice when the car is about to spin, you hear it, feel it,
lots of little signs make you aware of the state of the car.
In F1RC the car snaps totally unexpected. I think this is mainly due
to the bad force feedback.

Unfortunately this is happening too much lately, the product doesn't
seem finished. With a patch solving above problems this would become a
killer of a sim, the best current F1 sim so far.

But according do David there is still another version besides the
review version, so maybe the final version will have this problems
fixed. The official release date has been postponed with a week (22
march now) so who knows.

Well have fun :)

Andre

Hard? True, it lacks an idiot-proof beginner mode and most drastic driving
aids found in the others. But the full realism driving model (the one that
counts) feels pretty intuitive and dynamic to me. Together with the dynamic
weather (although not quite so spectacular as in GP3) it makes F1RC my
favourite F1 sim. The best graphics AND track accuracy out there don't hurt
either.

My only real complaint is with the substandard AI :-(

Joona

-Pav

What's wrong with the multiplayer?  Can you really expect to race nearly lag
free with a 56k modem, which I'm assuming that you have.  Here I have cable,
and have had absolutely no lag in any of my online experiences.  No warp--
not one bit.

So while you've said, "Yup, BAD" to a number of problems that you have with
F1RC, you fail to say exactly what is bad.

Some specifics would be nice, especially with the physics and multiplayer
parts.  And saying that the physics "just don't feel right" is again stating
your reasons in very general terms.

Alanb

Ahem, the game is in stores all over Germany.
Am I missing somthing?

Jan

No lag whatsoever.

Physics seem right-on, and make F1CS look like an arcade game.

No, multiplayer isn't as easy as playing checkers on the Zone, but it is
possible to get some good online racing if you know how to do it.

time.

Yeah. After all this is only the third generation of the sim and they've
gotten the AI and the sound all the way up to "sucks."

Who knows, after the patch it might get all the way up to " don't suck TOO
bad."

Note for the humor impaired, the above is sarcasm, which is a variety of the
aforementioned *humor.*

 Or, to put it in the vernacular," It's a joke son, don'cha know a joke
son?"

KFG

They don't particularly care about the GPLish physics model, nor do they
really notice the difference. He bought it because it was based on NASCAR,
and was the sequel to N3, and that was it (he owns N1/N2/N3/N4/NH/etc.).

It is true that many in our "sim world" crave realism, and hats off to the
developers who try/succeed... more power to them. But do not think it was
the "Sim Market" that drove N4 to #3 on the US Game Charts. That's certainly
not true (unfortunately).

In fact I sit back mostly silent and watch in the NG, as anyone who even
remotely mentions a game they are enjoying (which does not meet the general
"Sim Populas" standards as a true "Sim") get run out of town. Basically, RAS
more often than not literally "bites the hand that feeds them".

Most of you will find it extremely hard to swallow... but it is those
"Arcade Racers" who feed the publishers. The developers can want to make THE
most realistics Sim the community has ever seen, but it is the publisher who
finances it, takes the majority of financial risk, and ultimately makes the
decisions. Data shows that the arcade racers that Joe-Blow down the street
can jump into and find instant gratification, sells.

I am reminded of a short story a reliable source told me about a year ago
regarding GPL. When Havas bought out Sierra, they did a "tour" of their new
found acquisitions. Which included Papyrus (which is owned by Sierra as I am
sure you all know).

During their visit to Papy, a "suit" walked in, grabbed the GPL box and
exclaimed "What the [heck] were you people thinking when you made this!" The
reason is simple. Financially it was a bigtime FLOP. Tack on the years it
took to develop it, and the flop becomes bigger (financially speaking), in
comparisons to normal game failures.

Now... in my honest opinion, Nascar4 is THE biggest thing to hit Sim World.
I am not a big fan of the NASCAR series, but to each their own. What it has
done is this:

Placed an advanced physics model into a game that is now selling well. Some
will say that it is simply because of the NASCAR name, and I am one of them.
However, the residual is that it has proven that a realistic Sim can SELL.
It is a starting point for better things to come I think/hope. Some will say
that GPL was the biggest advancement in Sim Racing, and I say it was
actually a big fat detriment to the cause. I am not "technically speaking
about the physics model" but the effect it had on the proof on concept. It
left a big fat "Realism is not what is being bought... and GPL numbers show
that". Hindsight tells us that Sierra did a VERY BAD job of marketing it,
and we can blame the marketing dept. for it all we want... the
result/residual is the same... gunshy attitudes from the publishers, and we
are not helping the matter either TBH.

I even see "Sim Guys" now blasting the West Bros. because of the delays. The
very same people who proclaim that every game sucks compared to GPL, and in
Sim World they probably do. But bashing those developers/publishers doesn't
help you. If anything, it alienates the publishers/developers and is a
detriment to the cause. Think about it:

You're a salesman and are looking at 2 doors that you have knocked on
before. On the left is a door that 2 visits ago the guy told you to to "go
screw" and bad mouthed ya all over town.. The door on your right, is an easy
going guy who was easy to please, and you made some money off of him. The
last time you visited left door, you tried harder to earn his business, and
he still told you to "go screw" and slagged you again all over town.. The
door on your right... same amicable reception and another buck. Now you look
at your watch, you only have time to knock on 1 of those doors... which one
would YOU knock on?

So I guess my point is this:

Don't think our less than humble community is what drives success stories in
the *** industry. It simply isn't true (however unfortunate I may feel
that is).

Also, don't run out and bad-mouth those other games that for all intents and
purposes were not really directed at you from the start (from a development
strategy view... forced by the publishers).

Then, take the time to support those people who create fantastic Sims, and
tell your friends how great they are. Don't slag them for taking longer than
expected, sometimes those things you wait longest for, are worth the wait in
spades.

OK I'm done my rant. Sorry for the long post, just needed to get something
off my chest I guess.

For what it's worth:

I don't like F1RC at all (aside from the eye-candy that wears thin after
encountering all the bugs/shortfalls), but I think its great others are
enjoying it (to each their own).

I'm not really a big fan of GP3 either, when compared to F1CS. I think after
some adjustments from the community (which is also what helped make GPL
great) F1CS becomes a very fulfilling simulation for me. Not sure what you
guys have going on for configs either... I have never had that much problem
getting good framerates on CS from the start with all details maxed at
1280x1024. And no... I have a lowly 800 MHz with 256 RAM in my gamebox...
not a super computer.

But then again, that's just me, and that's all I have control over ATM, and
all I care to have control over (my own personal opinions).

Have a great day, and here's to hoping for an ultra-realistic F1 Sim in the
near future.

Cheers,

Schumi

That's the real thing folks - the track is *just* like this. Ostkurve
and Sachs curve have never really been in a sim until now.  GP3 was
pretty close but still missed many details and was much too flat. Ubi
got it right.

Shame about the rest of the game, I think it's pretty poor. But the
level of track accuracy is great, IMO this is how the track accuracy
in a sim should be. And I am usually *very* nit-picky about this.

What is it you're missing Ymenard ?

better framerate is one thing, being able to race it the other - GP3
runs absolutely smooth when starting with a full field on my machine
(Athlon 750, V5500 1024x768 2xFSAA) while F1RC stutters big time. When
you're alone on the track F1RC runs smoother than GP3 because of the
unlimited framerate.

Even here in the Simracing heartland of RAS we hear the story again and
again "I tried GPL but it was too hard"... and thats from people who are
actually into racing cars/motorcyckles/whatever on their computer.

GPL is a freak of nature... beatiful, almost perfect, but not to be loved by
anyone but the small devoted crowd.

Mikkel