rec.autos.simulators

Back when I was really into historic flight sims, I really enjoyed the
original Red Barron game by Dynamix, mainly because of the fact that
Red Barron's career mode was really exceptional.  You could start at
various time periods in the war, which meant that you could start your
"career" in various different machines, at different points in the
war's various campaigns.  As you scored more "kills," you were given
promotions in rank, choose a different airplane, or you might be
offered the opportunity to changing squadrons to fly alongside some of
history's greatest aces.  

One aspect of Red Barron's career mode that really made me think twice
about my decisions to engage the enemy was the fact that if you took
on too much damage or crashed your plane, your career could be
terminated by death or you could be sidelined for a period of
(simulated) time while you recuperated.  For example, if you flew into
battle in August of a particular year and were shot down, your might
be sidelined until you were fully recuperated in April of the
following spring.  

This might mean that you would miss out on historic battles, and you
would definitely miss out on more opportunities to score "kills" and
further your career.  If you found yourself injured late in the war,
the war might actually come to an end while you were recuperating,
leaving you with fewer kills, fewer medals, and less rank than if you
had flown more cautiously to avoid being sidelined by injuries.    

What does this have to do with career mode in a race sim?  Apply the
opportunity to be sidelined by injury or to have your career
terminated by death to a sim like GPL, NASCAR, ICR2, or Viper Racing,
and consider how it would affect your aggressiveness.  It's one thing
to crash out of a race and end up with no points due to a DNF -- and
that may affect your aggressiveness to some degree -- but it would
have an even greater effect if you had to also deal with the
possibility of being sidelined for one or more races because of
potential injuries sustained during an accident.  The issue of
bringing "simulated death" into a sporting simulation may be too
unsavory to consider, regarless of whether or not it would add an
additional level of realism, but injury is something that could
definitely be included without bringing too somber of a tone to bear.

There are other aspects that could be included, too -- you could also
be given the opportunity to act as just a driver, or as an
owner/driver, which would mean that you would also be responsible for
paying for any damages incurred, too.  As a driver, you would start
out with no cash and work your way up through winning prize money.  As
an owner/driver, you would start out with a given sum of money which
you would have to use to pay entry fees, then you could increase you
wealth by gaining prize money or by attracting sponsors with your
driving and your "team's" on-track performance.  As an owner/driver,
you would also have to pay for repairs, and you might also be given
the opportunity to run a second car and hire a second driver if you
had enough earnings to sustain a two-car operation (with you driving
in each race as an owner/driver, alongside an AI teammate).

As I said, there are vast, untapped possibilities here -- many people
have tried *some* aspects of what I've visualized here, but nobody has
really done it right, or taken it to a really enjoyable level.
On-line racing MAY be one way to have a great time with a race sim,
but I've never raced on-line yet, and I'm having a TON of fun working
through the career mode in Viper Racing, and I don't think I'm the
only one in this situation -- so that means there's still an untapped
market out there beyond and in addition to the avenue offered by
on-line racing.  

Anybody agree/disagree/want to shoot me for making such a pointless
post? <G>

-- John Bodin
   Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Multiplayer is extremely important to me though. Once I started racing
online exactly two years ago, it immediately became an ***ion. :-) I've
had to force myself to cut back. For me, racing against the AI just doesn't
compare to racing online. I've competed against a number of the best human
drivers of a few different racing sims/games and it's a whole different
experience than racing the computer.

David G Fisher

Sadly whilst this wouldn't be too hard to simulate, the sim makers seem to
think we can do without this. I mean, if I want racing career progression I
can start at the back of the field and move myself forward as I deem
realistic but that's not what I want to do. I'd like to have to prove
myself to get a deal.

Whilst I'm on the subject, it'd also be nice for the AI to be affected by
pressure during championships. I'd like to see drivers fighting for the
title acting as they do in real life (taking more risks or backing off if
they're ahead in the points). This is all part of racing and I've never
watched a single race where a driver near the end of the season isn't
racing for championship positions.

M

I think this happens to some degree in Viper Racing -- I'm seeing the
AI leader cars do more stupid things at the GT career mode level than
they did at lower levels.  Could just be "normal" AI stupidity,
though.  <G>

-- JB

Besides, are we becoming so jaded that we can't use our own imagination
and creativity anymore.  Do we have to be spoonfed/forced to "play" by
set rules and guidelines dictated by a computer program?

Use your imagination, build your own career mode.....  Start out in one
of the lesser cars and don't allow yourself to race in one of the top
marques until you have earned your wings.  Hey, if you mess up in a
World Championship race and wreck real bad, skip the next event or two
until you feel you have healed.  Or worse, you've killed yourself so put
the game away until you have been re-incarnated.

Make up your own rules, I think there are many possibilities already
included in GPL if you use the many that are stored in your imagination.
Let them loose!

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--Dave

: Besides, are we becoming so jaded that we can't use our own imagination
: and creativity anymore.  Do we have to be spoonfed/forced to "play" by
: set rules and guidelines dictated by a computer program?

  Um... well in a simulation we do - otherwise you might as well be
sitting in a carboard box going "brum brum, I'm the fastest" - why
be fettered by all that tedious physics modelling.  (Actually, if
you were really talented you could imagine the cardboard box).

: Make up your own rules, I think there are many possibilities already
: included in GPL if you use the many that are stored in your imagination.
: Let them loose!

  Um... yerssss.... but it would have been nice if the programmers
had let some of the possibilities stored in their imaginations loose
too.  So many of todays sims, and especially GPL, are very much based
around the concept of "doing what everyone else does only more so".
It would be nice to see a driving sim that added something else - like
the career mode in GT or the support car racing in TOCA 2.  There's
only so many times I can get e***d about another ground-breaking
physics model.  (I spend the rest of my life doing computer models
so perhaps I'm just jaded).

--
Richard G. Clegg     Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Dave Ewing

---
Jet Jaguar
I have a spam blocking address.  Replying to me is like pulling teeth.
Visit my crappy home page at http://home.att.net/~chmilnir/
MSTie #54297

Hey baby, wanna kill all the humans?

I am having lot of fun running my own World Championship (only novice though
:-). After completing it once (3rd place behind Hill & Clark) I find I am
improving my times on all the tracks. It gave me a bit more incentive to
learn each track more (still more learning to be done) and finish all the
races. I actually finished 5th at Monaco in my second WC attempt and have
done a race at Nurburgring which I had never raced on - this round I will
score points there!

Completing the World Championship in Pro Long would be quite a feat! Has
anyone done the full Grand Prix World Championship?

Funnily enough I buy games in order to let someone else do the imagination
for me. Generally when I have designed games (I worked in the industry
until recently) I tried to use my imagination and add features that were
new rather than just copy what everyone else was doing.

Why not go the whole hog and smash your legs with a hammer too? Anyway,
what about those sims that don't allow you to skip races without ending the
championship?

Personally I'd much prefer to say "hmm... I'd like a game with career
options" and wander down to the store and pick one up rather than having to
play "lets pretend" of an evening. Anyway, I'd rather have someone else
decide if I'm good enough to race for a team rather than do it myself,
after all, aren't we looking for realism?

M

It doesn't take that long actually, vroom, crash, ouch, next event...

Cheers!
John

For a game like this to work you would need to lock the saved games so you
can't just cancel a bad race weekend and try it again. The risks you take
should be measured against the real gain or loss involved. The technology
is available to write such a game.