rec.autos.simulators

by **Schumache** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. They
say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI HDs
are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to replace
my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I have
to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the ***
is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two year
old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a
PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD and
a SCSI HD at the sametime?

Thank You so much in advance

Schumacher

by **Luke Phillip** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

didnt know this was rec.computer.problems

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

It might be true for Dells. I'd never really trust those brand computers
anyway. They might integrate the SCSI controller on the mainboard instead of
the IDE, but even then you should be able to get the functionality via an
expansion card.

I got a combination of IDE and SCSI on my PC and that works, but I haven't
tried installing a DVD drive yet.

Jan.
------

>Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal. They
><snip>

by **John Simmo** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

2) The two hard drives you're citing are probably within 1 ms
of each other in terms of access times. When you're running
a P3/600, I very seriously doubt you'll be noticing the
difference in speed.

3) SCSI is wholly unnecessary anymore because IDE drives are
just as fast and a whole helluva lot cheaper. As far as
money goes, the 17.5gb SCSI drive (if bought separately
would cost somewhere in the $900 range, where an IDE drive
of similar size would cost $350.

4) Build your own machine.

--
=========================================================
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http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
=========================================================

by **Meij** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option
for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it
seems likely.

Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was
faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have
complained here hed have talked to Dell.

M

by **Schumache** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a
ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am I
going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the SCSI2
HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If wouldn't
have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And I am sure u
would have done the same.

schumacher

> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

> > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

> The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option
> for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it
> seems likely.

> Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was
> faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have
> complained here hed have talked to Dell.

> M

by **Chris Schlette** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Nope, I would have gotten the 37.5 Gig HD.

> Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a
> ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am I
> going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the SCSI2
> HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If wouldn't
> have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And I am sure u
> would have done the same.

> schumacher

> > >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

> > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

> > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an
option
> > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it
> > seems likely.

> > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was
> > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have
> > complained here hed have talked to Dell.

> > M

by **Meij** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Are you out of your tiny little mind? You actually refused 37.5Gb for a
17.5Gb disk?

Some people...

M

>Actually no. I got a SCSI HD cause with the PIII 600. I got either get a
>ATA33 5400RPM 37.5GBs HD or an Ultra Wide SCSI2 HD with 17.5GBs. What am
>I going to do with 37.5GBs? Store the national archives? since the the
>SCSI2 HD costs as much as the other one, I decided to get the SCSI. If
>wouldn't have been "forced to" I would have never gotten a SCSI HD. And
>I am sure u would have done the same.

>schumacher

>> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

>> > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

>> The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an
>> option for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm
>> it but it seems likely.

>> Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it
>> was faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he
>> wouldn't have complained here hed have talked to Dell.

>> M

by **Zonk** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>Path:
> mendelevium.btinternet.com!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.tli.de
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>et!news.ftech.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dirco
>n.net!not-for-mail
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
>Subject: Re: What's the hell is wrong with Dell?

>User-Agent: Xnews/2.04.01
>X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.157.32.60

>Date: 25 Aug 1999 15:55:54 +0100
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>Xref: mendelevium.btinternet.com rec.autos.simulators:202920
>Status: N

>Are you out of your tiny little mind? You actually refused 37.5Gb for a
>17.5Gb disk?

>Some people...

>M

Yeah, but SCSI-2 or IDE. I can honestly say i'd have trouble filling 17GB. I'd
go for the SCSi-2 as well.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

by **robswindell** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Well, he did say his name is Schumacher, so I guess that makes it okay in an OT
kind of a way... :)

> didnt know this was rec.computer.problems

> > Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal.
> They
> > say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI HDs
> > are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to replace
> > my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I have
> > to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the ***
> > is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two
> year
> > old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a
> > PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD
> and
> > a SCSI HD at the sametime?

> > Thank You so much in advance

> > Schumacher

--
Rob Swindells
3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points);
9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6)
"If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time
before." ~Martin Brundle
"If we could do this every week, we would be more consistent..." ~Bryan Robson
(I think)

by **ymenar** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I thought I was teleported in alt.sys.pc-clone.dell ;-)

-- <proud owner of a Dell PC>
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Adria** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

scsi IS faster
a 10,000 rpm ibm 9lzx IS faster than a 7200 rpm ide drive.
the 9lzx has 4 megs of cache
the largest cache on a ide drive is 2 megs, on the IBM drive.
I tested my 9lzx at 19-20 megs per second (uwscsi bus)
I tested my 5400rpm ide drive at 5-6 megs per second (ultra33 bus)
I tested my brother's 7200 rpm drive at 12/13 megs per sec (ultra33 bus)

And that's on a ultrawide scsi bus, not ultra2.
SCSI is a lot a lot quicker when you have multiple devices on the same
channel. 2 IDE devices cannot use 1 cable at the same time, 1 must go, then
the other goes, then the other, etc..etc..
with scsi they can all go at the same time..hence the need for the80
meg/second bus speed.
20 meg/second each * 4 = 80 meg/second
so you could have 4 10,000 rpm scsi devices on one channel and not lose any
speed.

get what i'm sayin?

> >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

> > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

> The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option
> for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it
> seems likely.

> Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was
> faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have
> complained here hed have talked to Dell.

> M

by **Adria** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

That's because they don't want to sell you a fully loaded system. If they
do, then the buyer will come back complaining that he/she can't upgrade. A
very smart move on dell's part...
If you buy the dell optiplex (rather than the dimensions), you get more pci
slots, so you would probably be able to do what you want to do. Also the
optiplex is a killer computer, it's SO easy to take apart, my brother has
one and its incredible...It's a good inch or so wider than the dimensions,
so make sure you've got desk room if you decide to go with the optiplex.
Also The expansion cards are mounted vertically rather than horizontally.
There is a whole rectangular thing that the expansion cards are held in, you
pull a lever (i think) and out they come. Much easier to add expansion cards
this way..

my brother had the same problem and he just added what he wanted after he
got the initial system. So buy it with the scsi drive, then add the dvd
drive later on.
i'm guessing you want the following cards.

video card (agp)
scsi adapter (pci)
sound card (pci or isa)
dvd decoder card (pci)
modem (pci/isa/external)

missing anything?
Oh yea, the new video cards (riva tnt2/voodoo3) are starting to come out
with dvd hardware decoding on board, so you wouldn't need the additional dvd
decoder card.

P.S. It's a 18 gig scsi drive, i believe...
are you getting the seagate or the ibm? get the ibm 18zx!
i have the 9lzx and it rips.
The ibm has got 2 (3?) more megs of cache than the seagate drive. That makes
a big difference in performance.

by **Rick Sweene** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Amen on rolling your own. Nothing worse than buying a system from a Best Buy
guru and finding out how ***ing stupid he was.

Dell sounds just as bad. Roll 'em if you got 'em.

Rick

> >Today I get a phone call from Dell telling me how my order is illegal.
> They
> >say that I have choose between my DVD or SCSI2 HD. They said that SCSI
> HDs
> >are not compatible with DVDS. So if I want to keep mu SCSI have to
> replace
> >my DVD with a CD-R which I don't want. And if I want to keep my DVD I
> have
> >to replace my 17.5GB SCSI2 10000RPM with a 5400 37.5GBs HD. What the
> ***
> >is their problem? I don't want a 37.5GB hd. And the HD I have on my two
> year
> >old computer is 7200RPM and I don't want to upgrade from a PII300 to a
> >PIII600 but then have a slower HD. Is this true that i can't have a DVD
> and
> >a SCSI HD at the sametime?

> 1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

> There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

> 2) The two hard drives you're citing are probably within 1 ms
> of each other in terms of access times. When you're running
> a P3/600, I very seriously doubt you'll be noticing the
> difference in speed.

> 3) SCSI is wholly unnecessary anymore because IDE drives are
> just as fast and a whole helluva lot cheaper. As far as
> money goes, the 17.5gb SCSI drive (if bought separately
> would cost somewhere in the $900 range, where an IDE drive
> of similar size would cost $350.

> 4) Build your own machine.

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting)
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Super X Philes
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

by **Rick Sweene** » Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:00

SCSI is a waste of money. put the money saved in a nice PC sound system.

> scsi IS faster
> a 10,000 rpm ibm 9lzx IS faster than a 7200 rpm ide drive.
> the 9lzx has 4 megs of cache
> the largest cache on a ide drive is 2 megs, on the IBM drive.
> I tested my 9lzx at 19-20 megs per second (uwscsi bus)
> I tested my 5400rpm ide drive at 5-6 megs per second (ultra33 bus)
> I tested my brother's 7200 rpm drive at 12/13 megs per sec (ultra33 bus)

> And that's on a ultrawide scsi bus, not ultra2.
> SCSI is a lot a lot quicker when you have multiple devices on the same
> channel. 2 IDE devices cannot use 1 cable at the same time, 1 must go, then
> the other goes, then the other, etc..etc..
> with scsi they can all go at the same time..hence the need for the80
> meg/second bus speed.
> 20 meg/second each * 4 = 80 meg/second
> so you could have 4 10,000 rpm scsi devices on one channel and not lose any
> speed.

> get what i'm sayin?

> > >1) They're blowin smoke up yer ass...

> > > There IS such a thing as a SCSI2 DVD drive.

> > The possibility is that they don't have any SCSI2 DVD drives as an option
> > for their systems. I can't call my account manager to confirm it but it
> > seems likely.

> > Anyway... I bet that "Schumacher" only got SCSI because he heard it was
> > faster. If he actually knew enough about the whole deal he wouldn't have
> > complained here hed have talked to Dell.

> > M