rec.autos.simulators

by **John Walla** » Thu, 08 Oct 1998 04:00:00

On Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:46:24 -0400, Neil Yeatman

>What we are discussing is Michael's original comment, "letting off the
>gas is the same as touching the brake", which I disagree with. When you
>let off the gas halfway, you are *not* applying the brakes...you're
>applying 50% gas.

Yes, but it is the _same_ as applying the brake given that you are
using a single axis for both brake and gas. Psychologically it may be
considered different but in terms of information passed from the pots
to the joystick port to the sim there is no difference.

Taking the example above, if I am at 100% throttle and want 50%
throttle I can either lift the throttle halfway or I can depress the
brake halfway - on a single axis this brings the same result and
agrees with what Michael originally stated.

As far as I can see we are arguing the same thing, only you think
Michael was wrong and I don't! Spooky :-)

Cheers!
John

by **John Walla** » Thu, 08 Oct 1998 04:00:00

>The person I was quoting was under the impression that on a single axes
>pedal system the only input being sent to the sim is throttle. This isn't
>true. The sim "sees" separate brake and gas inputs. Brake force is -256
>to -1 and gas is 1 to 256. 0 is neutral.

I think we are talking about the same thing from a different
perspective. The point I was making was related to what the original
post said - reducing throttle is the same as applying brake. It is,
provided you still have the throttle depressed and are on the same
axis.

Agreed.

To drive fast and consistently you need to be smooth. The problem with
sing axis is that in order to get fully on the brakes you have to jump
fully _off_ the gas - instantaneously. So you get weight massively
pitched forward, huge engine braking, AND full braking force the same
time. In a real racecar setup to be driven on the limit that would set
up massive forces on the car that smoothly decreasing throttle and
applying brake does not do. The comment was made about Schumacher that
he often _sounds_ like he takes corners flat but is actually braking
against full throttle - often massively so. That plays hell with brake
wear of course, but his laptimes show what it does for car stability
and finesse of control. The question then becomes how well are these
effects modelled? Of course sims don't model the increased downforce
from hot exhaust gas venting under the car, but the improved pitch
control will help.

Cheers!
John

by Jo » Thu, 08 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Thanks, but I'll probably just get a Nascar Pro. My T2 is getting
pretty old anyway (the calibration seems to "slip", even though I have
fairly new pots).

Joe

by **Keith Cals** » Fri, 09 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Thanks for answering my question before I posted it! I have a T2
with the adapter. When GPL came out, I thought, "hey! I'll just
remove the adapter and have the gas and brake on separate axes!" This
did not work even remotely as planned and now I know why.

Poop. Maybe if someone knows exactly how to rewire this thing and
could explain it to non-electrical-heads like myself...

--Keith
"Coming in 2nd place just means that you are the first to lose!"

by **Michael E. Carve** » Fri, 09 Oct 1998 04:00:00

% >Well sorta. . . The T1's and early T2's had the wheel on one joystick
% >1 and both pedals on joystick 2. Many Windows games couldn't cope with
% >this and thus the adapter/converter to put both devices on the same
% >joystick. The pedals were always on the same axis (be it joystick1 or
% >joystick2).

% Thanks for answering my question before I posted it! I have a T2
% with the adapter. When GPL came out, I thought, "hey! I'll just
% remove the adapter and have the gas and brake on separate axes!" This
% did not work even remotely as planned and now I know why.

% Poop. Maybe if someone knows exactly how to rewire this thing and
% could explain it to non-electrical-heads like myself...

You can find a wiring schematic at
http://www.monmouth.com/~lw4750/home.htm

Look of the thread "Seperate axis on a T2? (long)" here in r.a.s. and
read the reply by jsilva (LavaBoy) for information on how to...

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Eldred Picke** » Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Really? I do MUCH better with just socks...
________

Eldred Pickett
e-mail address altered to deter spammers - remove the '*' to reply

Put your message in a modem - and throw it into the ***-sea...

rec.autos.simulators

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!

GPL is HARD!!!