rec.autos.simulators

Wrong.

Analog inputs have a range of -256 to 256

The brake pedals uses half of an axis, from -256 to 0.

The gas pedals uses the other half, from 0 to 256

So, with neither pedal engaged there is neither braking force nor
acceleration force. The input is 0 - nothing.

With the gas pedal down , while the brake pedal is up, there is still no
braking force, as the input is greater than 0.

It only becomes different in the fact that you get the full range of 512
input values for either the gas or brake pedals. This gives a finer
control. You can think of it as a separate axes setup counting by 1s,
while the single axis setup counts by 2s. Both get to the same total
range, but one setup gets twice the amount of available steps to get
there.

Does the T2 have seperate axes?

Joe

It's pretty simple really since there's nothing GPL can do. Let's say
you have gas at "10" (to pick an arbitrary number). That is the _only_
piece of information your gameport can give since it is simply a
measure of the changing resistance delivered from the gas and brake
pots. If that number now changes to "8", GPL has no idea if I lifted
off the gas by "2" or I depressed the brake by "2". Whichever I do the
effect is the same within GPL or indeed any sim.

Only with separated gas and brake will you get added benefits (where
the game models and supports it).

Cheers!
John

Cheers!
John

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Not true.  It is different in that, while on separate joystick axes,
throttle and brake inputs can be made at the same time - which is
almost a necessity in GPL.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

% Does the T2 have seperate axes?

No it doesn't, but it shouldn't be too hard to rewire it so that it does
(assuming that TM has all of the wires available in their cable).  The
hard part would be to make it switchable (though not that much harder).

This was discussed awhile back by a few folks.  Did anyone ever do it
successfully and would you be so kind as to share your method?

Also one of the TM support people offered to see if he could dig up a
wiring diagram for us.  I'll see if I can dig up their address and
"pester" him again.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

What we are discussing is Michael's original comment, "letting off the
gas is the same as touching the brake", which I disagree with.  When you
let off the gas halfway, you are *not* applying the brakes...you're
applying 50% gas.

In any joystick calibration routine on a 2-axis setup, pushing the gas
all the way down shows 100% on the "gas" side of centre.  Pushing the
brake halfway in at the same time reduces the gas by 50%, and the net
result is 50% gas..no brakes. Pushing the brake all the way zeroes it
out.  

So...100% gas + 100% brake = Zero.  The reverse is true if you push the
brake fully and then apply gas pedal.

Not until the pointer crosses over to the braking side of centre is
brake being applied - unless GPL is interpreting this differently, which
I don't believe it does.  Whichever input goes in first is the one that
then is counteracted by the other pedal.

All of the above assumes that your pots apply the same amount of
resistance, of course.

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

Why not quote the part I was quoting, so you don't take my comments out
of context...

Let's back up a bit and get the -whole- picture

---

The person I was quoting was under the impression that on a single axes
pedal system the only input being sent to the sim is throttle. This isn't
true. The sim "sees" separate brake and gas inputs. Brake force is -256
to -1 and gas is 1 to 256. 0 is neutral.

Yes, a two axes system allows for separate brake and gas inputs
simultaneously. I didn't really clarify that in my original post. I was
more concentrated on the fact that dual axes gives finer control

But, from my own experiences I don't see dual axes pedals as an absolute
necessity for GPL. It's probably slightly advantagous, but you can drive
the sim perfectly well with a single axis pedal system. I do just fine
with my CH Products EXL-500.

--
Wolfgang Preiss   \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

% Nope...I responded from experience.  

% What we are discussing is Michael's original comment, "letting off the
% gas is the same as touching the brake", which I disagree with.  When you
% let off the gas halfway, you are *not* applying the brakes...you're
% applying 50% gas.

% In any joystick calibration routine on a 2-axis setup, pushing the gas
% all the way down shows 100% on the "gas" side of centre.  Pushing the
% brake halfway in at the same time reduces the gas by 50%, and the net
% result is 50% gas..no brakes. Pushing the brake all the way zeroes it
% out.  

Yes, looking at the "calibration" screen or TMScope, but I don't think
that the sim makers actually model it this way.  I know that in Papyrus
sims, the car handles differently with separate axes than an single
axis.  It is evident in the way the car noses down when there is a
sudden lift of the accelerator (ICRII & N2).  It acts the same way when
the brake is being applied.  When I switched to pedals on seperate axes
this behavior was greatly lessened.  While the nose still dipped (as it
should, since sudden deceleration will transfer the weight to the front
wheels), it wasn't as pronounced.  I also experienced greater control
over subtle throttle changes.

But, you are correct in saying that separate axes are more prominent
while applying both brake and throttle (e.g., trail-braking).  Which I
haven't spent too much time playing with in GPL.  I mainly either brake
or accelerate.  Maybe it's just my imagination, but I sense a finer
control when they are on a separate axix.

% So...100% gas + 100% brake = Zero.  The reverse is true if you push the
% brake fully and then apply gas pedal.

% Not until the pointer crosses over to the braking side of centre is
% brake being applied - unless GPL is interpreting this differently, which
% I don't believe it does.  Whichever input goes in first is the one that
% then is counteracted by the other pedal.

% All of the above assumes that your pots apply the same amount of
% resistance, of course.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% > Does the T2 have seperate axes?

% It depends on how old your T2 is.  The original T2's came wired as a 3
% axis joystick.  They supplied an adapter to make it a 2 axis stick.  At
% some point however they changed it to work as a 2 axis stick only, and
% stopped shipping the adapter.

Well sorta. . .  The T1's and early T2's had the wheel on one joystick
1 and both pedals on joystick 2.  Many Windows games couldn't cope with
this and thus the adapter/converter to put both devices on the same
joystick.  The pedals were always on the same axis (be it joystick1 or
joystick2).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

--

Neil Yeatman          
Ajax, Ontario, CANADA