rec.autos.simulators

Hi there,

Today I went and got a Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel for N4.

With the FF enabled the graphics get really choppy when the FF is more
active. The graphics seems to skip around. Even if I disable  FF in the N4
options menu the problem is still there to some degree. I even turned off FF
from the FORCE button on the wheel and it did not help much either.

Here are a couple of things worth mentioning.
First my system:
P4 1.5 Ghz
521 MB RAMBUS
Visiontek GeForce 3
MS Sidewinder Wheel USB
N4 at 1024x768x32
All the latest drivers and windows updates installed

If I disable Full Screen Anti Aliasing (FSAA) off on my GeForce 3 the
problem goes about 90% away. I still notice the skip but its minimal. At 2X
and nVidia's special Quincunx FSAA the problem is horrible. I did not even
dare to try 4X FSAA. So it makes me wonder if the FF wheel and the FSAA is
just too much on the system and that is the reason for the choppy graphics.
Or, could it be some other hardware or driver issue.

I reconnected my old Logitech non FF wheel and the graphics ran smooth as
silk.

I really like the feel of the FF wheel but its not worth the sacrifice to in
graphic performance to me. This wheel is going back tomorrow of I don't find
a solution.

I guess I am going to try and lower resolution and turning off the 3d sound
to see what happens. Really just out of curiosity. If this is necessary to
be able to use the FF wheel without graphic slowdowns then I don't want it.

Anyone else experience this problem?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Eric

Force feedback come at a price; a performance loss.

Run N4 with fewer options or at a lower resolution...  Looking at your
system an hardware upgrade dosnt seem to be an option :-)  However, the MSFF
wheels have been said to use more CPU power then say a Act-labs wheel.
You might want to try one of those...

ed_

Hello,

I am not sure if this helps at all, but it is worth the effort.  My
main *** machine at home has a Voodoo 5 5500 and AMD 1 Gig
processor with 768 megs of RAM.  I use the ACT LABS Force RS all the
time with 2x to 4x FSAA and force feedback and have never perceived a
drop in frame rates.  If I have time today, I will try to test the
same configuration as what you have.  

Raymond
ACT LABS
www.act-labs.com

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:01:53 -0400, "El Mandaito"

This seems to be the most logical answer to the situation.

I turned off 3d sound and it made no difference.

I am not satisfied with the wheel and I will take it back tomorrow.

I checked out the Act-Labs stuff and it looks great. They are back ordered
for a short while and I was looking for a quick fix. I will most likely wait
for the Act-Labs to come out and get one of those. In the meantime I will
give one of the Thrustmaster FF Wheels out.

Thanks for your input,

Eric

Hi Ray,

I checked out your web site and products not long ago. Your stuff looks
great but on back order at the moment. I was a little impatient and went for
the MSFF wheel for the time being. As you can see I am not happy with it and
I will be taking it back to the store tomorrow.

As for the FPS, it not as much as a drop in the frame rate as it is a
stutter in the graphics. It starts to skip when the FF starts to kick in.
Its severly annoying. Anyway, I would be very interested in your test
results.

Thanks for you time,

Eric

The msff is known to consume cpu power when ff is on, but your 1.5 GHz
should be up to that. My guess is you have some irq conflict between the
wheel and the videocard.
Another thing, what happens in other games?

Bart Westra

It could be the USB also.  I bet your Logitech wheel is the gameport
version. I have the gameport version MSFF plugged into my SBLive and dont
have any prob with ff causing performance loss. Try to see what else is
using the same IRQ as your USB. You could have some resource hogging going
on. What else is in your system besides what you have already listed?

  See if the store where you got it hase the non USB version of the wheel
and give that a try. It really has been a great wheel for me.

Also I have allocated more memory dedicated to my USB for a cable modem
slowdown and it seemed to help .

 Good luck. let us know how it turns out. I am thinking of ACT labs ff wheel
and shifter for GPL and eventually WSC.

Hiya Doug,

Care to tell us how you do that?

Thanks!

ed_

Ed,
  I was trying to find the exact page where I read how to do it while I was
writing the original reply post. It was on one of those Windows tips and
tricks sites. I will keep looking. I am sure one of the Windows guru's here
at R.A.S. know how it's done. Anyone?
Doug

I have a AMD 1.3 with Voodoo 5 and MSFF gameport wheel. I get no pausing at
16x12 no fsaa, or 8x6 4fsaa. This is with all details maxed, full AI field,
etc. The problem is the USB version of the wheel. See if you can get a
gameport version or a different wheel.

I bought a second hand (3 months old only) MS FF wheel USB version in Nov
2000. After the initial joy of driving with FF enabled I suddenly realised
graphics are stuttering heavily. I tried GPL (terrible fps drops- approx.
25% !!) Colin McRae2 and CMR1, Toca2 and Need for speed5 with time. All
games became unplayable as graphics would just skip frames a LOT- it was
same as like a engine was misfireing in a car. Even old ColinMcRae1 which
should be a breeze on that computer didnt run in 640*480 smoothly. It seemed
like everything was going in slow-motion as soon as I installed my wheel, no
matter if FF was acually on or off.

No help- all games became impossible to play on my comp (C500, GeForce2Mx)
and I asked around in Vroc. They suggested I should try to unistall MS
software and that did help a little, but my CPU just couldnt keep up with
it. It seemed a little strange that even older games (which would run great
on even P200) were so slow on my C500 with FF wheel. I asked a local MS
dealer and they aknowledged it was too much of a framerate drop to be
normal. So they replaced my wheel with a new one, same model. It was a bit
better, but still I eventually got tired of lowering the resolutions and
limiting sounds- and just installed my old non-ff wheel which I am using up
to date. Now, my MS FF wheel lies silently on a shelf awaiting better times
(or computer perhaps).

Just thought to mention my story as I was so surprised to learn u have same
problems with a much more powerfull computer. I would say it has to be a
flow in USB series of MS FF wheels. I've had some talk with time with other
MSFF users and all confirmed USB only version (after y2000 production I'd
say) has great difficulties with framerates, no matter how strong the rig.
So my advice would be- try to get a different wheel (ActLabs seems like a
good choice) or get a gameport version of MSFF, which works without any
abovementioned problems.

sorry for long post

Mike

Raymond,

I've always considered an Act Labs for my next wheel, but I've never been
able to find one in a store to test...

I've been burnt too many times on shitty wheels.  No test, no buy.

-Larry