rec.autos.simulators

In the past, I used to get one pause in each DirectX(2/3) game after
loading the game (for instance in Virtua Fighter PC, Sega Rally and
such), but even that has vanished now. And it really didn't matter that
much back then either, because it always happened only once after
loading the game.

For many people it has. At last I can buy some other sound card besides
just Soundblaster 16. At last I can connect four 10-button joypads to
the system, and games even support it. At last I don't have to bend
over just to play net games. And so on and so on.

I know it must be very hard for some of you to admit, but Win95 has
overall enhanced PC *** a lot, even with its problems.

I must break you then to hear that I have awfully slow hard drives in
my system. Some VERY old Seagate or Conner (the cheapest one I could
get back then), and the newest hard drive is Quantum Bigfoot 4.3GB.
You know, the cheapest and slowest one around? And still no pause
problems with swapping in games, mainly because there is no swapping
during the games (I have 32MB of RAM). After them yes, when I exit the
game, but that hardly affects the gameplay.

Except that in DOS you tweak with every game (trying to get your sound
card to work and calibrate your joystick for each game, for example).

It is the very same reason why John Carmack chose OpenGL instead of
Direct3D 3.0 IM for Quake and Quake 2. Ease of use.

I could say the same as you: those who complain about Win95 games being
slower than DOS games probably have graphics cards that are very fast
in DOS but very slow in Win95.

"It is not"? Ummm... It is! Gee, I like this pre-school argumentation.
;^)

Ummm... no, on the contrary, it has made things much easier. It is so
easy to argue like you. ;^)

The problem is there were LOTS of other sound card APIs for DOS games.
LucasArts had its own, Sierra had its own, there was HMI etc. etc. etc.
And even if the game said it supported your sound card, it may be it
didn't work regardless, even if it worked fine with other DOS games.
To name two, I had this problem with e.g. Descent 2 and Tomb Raider.

Also, if you bought a new (non-compatible) sound card, you usually could
not get it to work with your older games, even if it had drivers for
all those sound card APIs. In Win95, as long as your new sound card has
working DirectSound drivers, you are all set.

Ask game developers like John Carmack from ID and LucasArts
programmers. They have all stated that DOS was/is a *** to program
for, and that was/is the main reason they are not making DOS games
anymore.

As does about any 3Dfx flight sim with as simple graphics.
Can you say "F/A-18 Hornet: Korea"?

Yeah, the difference is that in JF3 you have to calibrate (and
recalibrate, and recalibrate, and recalibrate...) your flightstick,
while with F/A-18 you just told the game that you want to use a
joystick for the controls, and that's it.

Yeah, it is very common in DOS games that the calibration gets goofy.
I remember how I always had to make sure that I don't move my CH
Flightstick too fast in Wing Commander 1&2 in the early 90s, because
that would mean I had to recalibrate the stick or sometimes even exit
and reload the game before I got the calibration back.

Much more valid comparison would be something like F1RS (on a 3Dfx
card) compared to ICR2 (on Verite V2100/V2200 card). True, ICR2 CPU
requirements are lower, but it also has MUCH simpler graphics as well,
like much less polygons on the screen at any time etc.

What is supposed to be your point? You can support 3D cards directly in
Win95/NT too, for example F1RS uses WinGlide for native 3Dfx support.

Sorry to see how ignorant you are. If you didn't know, the pauses in
Flying Corps are due to texture swapping. That is a hardware "defect"
(too little local texture memory on the 3D card), nothing to do with
Win95 in itself.

As for Mercs D3D, I wonder how you Win95 bashers always seem to think
this single worst example of a D3D/Win95 game is the only game out
there?

Hey, let's compare X-Car (which is a MS-DOS game with native 3Dfx
support) to F1RS (which is a Win95 game with native 3Dfx support).
X-Car has terrible slowdowns and pauses every now and then compared to
F1RS, even though X-Car has much simpler, crappy looking graphics.
So I guess using your flawed logic we can conclude DOS slows the system
down and causes lots of pauses for driving games.

Or let's compare Win95 POD to MS-DOS Whiplash, both with 3Dfx support.
Once again, Whiplash (MS-DOS) is both slower and has simpler graphics
(less polygons on the screen etc.).

Used to be true, not really anymore - almost no one programs these
things from scratch, they buy 3rd-party programming libraries to
interface to game devices. Same for soundcards.

Sorry, the facts beg to differ. No jitter in DOS, no latency, no
problems whatsoever.

Joe

Sorry bout all the posts my server is acting flakey!

--
Tim - remove REMOVE to e-mail

WIn95 has some problems when it gomes to *** and its too hard to
troubleshoot. Anytime you install or delete an application,game or even
a demo you run the risk of corrupting files or screwing up the registry.
 There are times when it is preferable to delete and reisntall Win95 as
opposed to spending sometimes days tracking down and resolving a
problem. That to me is sad. As a matter of fact ttami if you dont
believe me I challenge you to help me resolve an issue I currently have
with my computer! I think win95 is cool but either it needs to handle
memory better for ***,or the game programmers really have some
homework to do! As there are several new games on the market that have
pausing on anyones machine!

Yes there is. If you knew anything about how they work and how the
joystick support is programmed for MS-DOS games, you wouldn't say
that.

But for those who are programming those libraries, it is a living
nightmare. And it is a true nightmare for the end users too, having to
buy "speed compensating game cards", not getting support for their
multibutton joysticks in DOS games, having to recalibrate their sticks
all the time in DOS etc. etc.

I suggest you learn more about it before spewing complete BS like that.
The problem is in the hardware, the way your crappy DOS controllers
utilize the game port. That's why there are those stupid restrictions
(two buttons 2-axis and all that stuff), that's why there is so big
latency with them (if you are used to it you may not see it), that's
why it drifts in DOS, that's why people have to buy "speed compensating
game cards" for those crappy DOS controllers etc.

Why is it that every discussion with you seems to lead to you
petulantly declaring that your opponent doesn't know anything? I guess
it's inevitable when a) you can never admit being wrong and b) the
facts simply do not support your argument.

Nonsense. It's no harder than those programming the DirectInput code
for Win95 - apparently a lot easier, since many DOS programs work fine
with these devices, and Win95 does not.

Actually my joystick support worked perfectly in DOS with a normal
soundcard port. I bought the TM card in hopes of fixing WIN95 jitter
problems - but unfortunately their hardware cannot fix the
funcamentally broken WIN95 DirectInput code.

And once again, ttammi throws rational debate to the wind and the
personal attacks and insults start. Have fun. Get back to me when
you're out of pre-school.

There is none of this.

They do not drift in DOS.

I bought the card in hopes of fixing Win95 - the card wasn't needed in
DOS at all.

Joe

I'm sure lots of people have felt the same about DOS games.

Sure, just bring your computer here. When my relatives had terrible
problems with installing and running their DOS games in DOS6.22,
I had to visit them to be able to partially fix it.

"Anyone's machine"? Don't be silly. Name one such game that has "pauses
on anyone's machine" because of Win95. Have you seen that game running
on everyone's machine to make such a silly statement?

BTW, Flying Corps and iF-22 are not such games, there the pausing is
due to texture swapping, which in itself has nothing to do with Win95
itself.

Please, ask ANYONE who has done low-level joystick coding for MS-DOS,
how it really is. The way your "advanced DOS flightsticks" work is
plain pathetic and brain dead.

Funny, I could say exactly the same about you, for instance how you
modify Andy Hollis' messages to fit your own arguments better. But the
fact is you don't know what you are talking about (in this case
either). I ask you again to ask someone who has really done low level
joystick coding for DOS. The way it works is simply braindead.

Have you coded both to make such a statement?

Only if you are used to jitter and big latency.

So why have they been selling these "speed compensating game cards" for
years already, before DirectInput even existed? Because the way DOS
joysticks work is simply broken.

Actually, the extra hardware cannot help your broken joysticks.

Yeah, your magic "test program" told you that, right?

Just saying "do not" repeatedly won't deny the facts. I just read
another "DOS forever" guy in this same thread praise Jetfighter 3
because it is so easy to recalibrate the controller while in flight
"when the calibration gets goofy". That just underscores how broken
the joystick support in DOS really is.

There is also a reason why these speed compensating game cards have
always sold so well for DOS games.

These cards sold so well even before Win95 existed. Ever wondered
why?

1 game huh...Front Page sports fottball pro 98!

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never needed a speed compensating game card
from my original DX2/50 up. I use quite a few controllers, too.
Thrustmaster T2, Wingman Extreme, Gravis Gamepad, and a Saitek X35/36.

Since you know, what does Win95 do differently from DOS as far as
joystick support?
Having never had controller problems until DirectX 5, I'm curious.

--
Tim - remove REMOVE to e-mail