rec.autos.simulators

For those that want Daytona

Alex Santantoni

For those that want Daytona

by Alex Santantoni » Thu, 27 Mar 1997 04:00:00

My new track, or upgrade for that fact is nearing completion.  You can
see screen shots of it on the NASCAR Networks message board.  Look at
the message entitled Daytona screen shots posted by myself.  The tracks
is looking excellent, even a lake in the infield.  The url is
http://www.racesimcentral.net/;Go to the message board once there.  After
you check them out please post a message letting me know how it looks so
far. I hope to post the track by Friday.

Alex Santantonio
The NASCAR Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Alex's NASCAR Pit Shop
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Eric T. Busc

For those that want Daytona

by Eric T. Busc » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00

I'm afraid I still don't see the point.  Sure we all want to race at
Daytona, but not as a conversion of Talladega and especially not for
N1.  

BTW, just a little constructive criticism from a web pimp: for the love
of God kill the navigation window on the nascarnet site.

--




Raav

For those that want Daytona

by Raav » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00

On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:46:53 -0500, Alex Santantonio


>My new track, or upgrade for that fact is nearing completion.  You can
>see screen shots of it on the NASCAR Networks message board.  Look at
>the message entitled Daytona screen shots posted by myself.  The tracks
>is looking excellent, even a lake in the infield.  The url is
>http://www.nascarnet.com/  Go to the message board once there.  After
>you check them out please post a message letting me know how it looks so
>far. I hope to post the track by Friday.

>Alex Santantonio
>The NASCAR Network
>http://www.nascarnet.com

>Alex's NASCAR Pit Shop
>http://www.nascarnet.com/pitshop

Don't pay any attention to those PAPY "Wannabes" at least sombody is
doing something to upgrade our investment. Yeah ALEX !!!!
Now you can hear from all those defenders of " Lets not pick on my
personal friend - JIM CLUB" who figure that JIM can't answer his own
e-mail. They won't want a new track ,,,,, NO WAY ..... Well maybe if
they try it and don't tell Jim they can still be his friend.... Yeah
that's it!!!!!      :)--
Kevin Franc

For those that want Daytona

by Kevin Franc » Fri, 28 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Well thats good byt NASCAR2 is what we are playing because it is a better
game. Try to do a track for N2 and forget the one for N1.



ROSC

For those that want Daytona

by ROSC » Mon, 31 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Yeah Alex!!! Now Daytona will stop standing in the way of the Daytona
projects, the first of being created in The Pits.  And also, I'd like a
ICR2 version (tragic track for them), and a code that lets you use the
road course.

Christopher
http://members.aol.com/ROSCS

P.S. At least that USA Speedway won't have to worry about faking Daytona.

Kyle Langst

For those that want Daytona

by Kyle Langst » Mon, 31 Mar 1997 04:00:00

You say on the message board that the screen shots are "simply to show
what is possible", and "HEAR THAT DAYTONA, I'M NOT RELEASING
IT!!!!!!!!"  Then you say you hope to release it by Friday (which is
long gone now, but....).  What gives?  The first statement makes much
more since, with the potential copyright infringments involved with
recreating Daytona without permission.  

Please tell me I'm wrong and that Sega and Daytona have declined to
pursue legal action if such a track is released.

On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:46:53 -0500, Alex Santantonio


>My new track, or upgrade for that fact is nearing completion.  You can
>see screen shots of it on the NASCAR Networks message board.  Look at
>the message entitled Daytona screen shots posted by myself.  The tracks
>is looking excellent, even a lake in the infield.  The url is
>http://www.nascarnet.com/  Go to the message board once there.  After
>you check them out please post a message letting me know how it looks so
>far. I hope to post the track by Friday.

>Alex Santantonio
>The NASCAR Network
>http://www.nascarnet.com

>Alex's NASCAR Pit Shop
>http://www.nascarnet.com/pitshop

Kyle Langston
____________________________________________
IBM #72 Ford Thunderbird - Hurricane Racing
http://www.traction.git.net/hurricane/
NASS Series 1997 Winsten Cup Division
Je

For those that want Daytona

by Je » Sun, 13 Apr 1997 04:00:00



>Please tell me I'm wrong and that Sega and Daytona have declined to
>pursue legal action if such a track is released.

Well if they have then it's news to me. However, Papyrus may not be so
forgiving.

The problem The Pits have with any patches we release is that we
cannot distribute any of the original code. Therefore, if your
'Daytona' has any of the original files in it then your distributing
original code and therefore breaking copyright.

The reason it takes me so long to write patches is that I have to
write routines to extract the files, patch them and put it all
together again.

Just be careful what your doing. It's not just Daytona you have to
worry about.

And like I've said till I'm blue in the face - if ISC pulls the rug on
any hopes of an official Daytona because of the hacks, you've
only got yorselves to bame.

Cheers

Jed
The Pits - http://www.thepits.demon.co.uk

Mike Fraz

For those that want Daytona

by Mike Fraz » Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Actually

Each part of the track MUST be copyrighted individually to stop us
from using them.  If someone can, check to see if the tracks are
copyrighted as a whole.  If SO, individual components CAN legally be
used, especially in altered format.  Check it out.




>>Please tell me I'm wrong and that Sega and Daytona have declined to
>>pursue legal action if such a track is released.

>Well if they have then it's news to me. However, Papyrus may not be so
>forgiving.

>The problem The Pits have with any patches we release is that we
>cannot distribute any of the original code. Therefore, if your
>'Daytona' has any of the original files in it then your distributing
>original code and therefore breaking copyright.

>The reason it takes me so long to write patches is that I have to
>write routines to extract the files, patch them and put it all
>together again.

>Just be careful what your doing. It's not just Daytona you have to
>worry about.

>And like I've said till I'm blue in the face - if ISC pulls the rug on
>any hopes of an official Daytona because of the hacks, you've
>only got yorselves to bame.

>Cheers

>Jed
>The Pits - http://www.thepits.demon.co.uk

Mike Frazer
#11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN
Prime Time Motorsports


Jim Sokolo

For those that want Daytona

by Jim Sokolo » Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:00:00



>Actually

>Each part of the track MUST be copyrighted individually to stop us
>from using them.  If someone can, check to see if the tracks are
>copyrighted as a whole.  If SO, individual components CAN legally be
>used, especially in altered format.  Check it out.

Tune in next week for the exciting conclusion of "Amateur UseNet
Lawyer"...
James Dunph

For those that want Daytona

by James Dunph » Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:00:00

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC485D.95DEDB60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

nice to see your still there Jed

------=_NextPart_000_01BC485D.95DEDB60
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#E8E8E8"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial Narrow">nice to see your still there =
Jed<br><br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC485D.95DEDB60--

SimRaci

For those that want Daytona

by SimRaci » Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Uh...I think not Mike...Each part of the track?...You mean like a
plain-concrete wall, or a dirty piece of asphalt?...Anything else
would constitute copyright infringment, if it even remotely resembled
the track...It's certainly a grey-area, but I don't have the money for
the lawyers...do you?  ;)

Marc

Jn1414

For those that want Daytona

by Jn1414 » Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:00:00

(SimRacing) Date: 14 Apr 1997 11:02:12 GMT Message-ID:

stop us > from using them.  If someone can, check to see if the tracks are
used, especially in altered format.  Check it out.

Uh...I think not Mike...Each part of the track?...You mean like a
plain-concrete wall, or a dirty piece of asphalt?...Anything else would
constitute copyright infringment, if it even remotely resembled the
track...It's certainly a grey-area, but I don't have the money for the
lawyers...do you?  ;)

 Marc <

Depends on what you mean by 'remotely' resembled the track.   Some of the
tracks 'remotely' resemble each other.   Without specific signs or some
sort of 'smoking gun' like that I doubt there would be anything the suits
could do about it.
The only real solution to all this is for $ierra to release an editor to
allow people to design their own tracks and also issue a warning about
distributing unauthorized replicas of the tracks.  The important thing is
the ability to race on a track designed/banked/etc. like the real thing.
The obvious workaround to these legal problems would be to have generic
tracks with cheesy (un-real) looking walls, etc. but to have the actual
driving characteristics.  I mean can you really see their lawyers saying
"But your honor, their track is banked just like ours!!  This is a
violation of our rights."       I just don't see that happening.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

Jason Nichols

Commissioner

SportSim Football League

http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

Alex Santantoni

For those that want Daytona

by Alex Santantoni » Tue, 15 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Is it not true that Papyrus distributed Taladega as freeware in the
demo?  Is it also true that This can be reposted?  If this is the case
then in fact we could alter this tracks and redistribute as we want,
correct?  Just wondering.

Mike Fraz

For those that want Daytona

by Mike Fraz » Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:00:00

Okay, what I MEANT was this: You could take a building or a set of
stands and alter the textures.  Say the building going into 1 at
Bristol...without textures, it is a box.  No one can copyright a box.
With altered textures, there is absolutely NO resemblance even though
you used the framework.  Therefore, the new product cannot be
considered a copyright infringement.  As for TRACKS, if you alter the
shape, go for it because once AGAIN you cant copyright a SHAPE.  If
you were to use the track in the exact shape it is in now (as is the
case for the current N1 Las Vegas, Daytona, etc...since no one has
figured out how to alter this yet) you WOULD be infringing.  But all I
was saying is that if you want to get into the technicalities of it
all, they cant claim copyright infringement if they have a copyright
only onthe track as a whole, and not on the individual components.
And as long as you give credit to any sponsors on the track in a piece
of documentation, I doubt they would sue you for the free advertising
you have given them.

Mike Frazer



>(SimRacing) Date: 14 Apr 1997 11:02:12 GMT Message-ID:

>> Actually > > Each part of the track MUST be copyrighted individually to
>stop us > from using them.  If someone can, check to see if the tracks are
>> copyrighted as a whole.  If SO, individual components CAN legally be >
>used, especially in altered format.  Check it out.

>Uh...I think not Mike...Each part of the track?...You mean like a
>plain-concrete wall, or a dirty piece of asphalt?...Anything else would
>constitute copyright infringment, if it even remotely resembled the
>track...It's certainly a grey-area, but I don't have the money for the
>lawyers...do you?  ;)

> Marc <

>Depends on what you mean by 'remotely' resembled the track.   Some of the
>tracks 'remotely' resemble each other.   Without specific signs or some
>sort of 'smoking gun' like that I doubt there would be anything the suits
>could do about it.
>The only real solution to all this is for $ierra to release an editor to
>allow people to design their own tracks and also issue a warning about
>distributing unauthorized replicas of the tracks.  The important thing is
>the ability to race on a track designed/banked/etc. like the real thing.
>The obvious workaround to these legal problems would be to have generic
>tracks with cheesy (un-real) looking walls, etc. but to have the actual
>driving characteristics.  I mean can you really see their lawyers saying
>"But your honor, their track is banked just like ours!!  This is a
>violation of our rights."       I just don't see that happening.

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------------

>Jason Nichols

>Commissioner

>SportSim Football League

>http://members.aol.com/jn141414/ssfl.html

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------

Mike Frazer
#11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN
Prime Time Motorsports


Jim Sokolo

For those that want Daytona

by Jim Sokolo » Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:00:00



>Okay, what I MEANT was this: You could take a building or a set of
>stands and alter the textures.  Say the building going into 1 at
>Bristol...without textures, it is a box.  No one can copyright a box.

Strictly speaking, no one can copyright the idea of a box; however, if
my expression of the box idea is somehow unique and I can claim that
that uniqueness is in any way important, I can copyright the
particular expression of a box. (No one can copyright the idea of a
novel, but I can copyright my particular expression of a novel. Same
for songs, plays, paintings, computer games, etc.)

If the framework is unique somehow, I'll bet it's copyrightable.

That remains to be seen; I disagree with your argument so far.

(See above; that holds for SHAPE to as far as I can tell.)

This is a dangerous assumption to make, and I would encourage anyone
who has any money to their name who is considering this to check with
a competent intellectual property lawyer before assuming that Mike is
correct here. (Because I honestly believe he's not.)

You haven't dealt with the sponsors. Papyrus has run into problems in
their past with sponsors. The sponsors could choose to view it as free
advertising, but most don't. Even if they viewed it as free
advertising, they would probably compel you to sign a license with
them.

---Jim Sokoloff

PS: I'm not trying to be the rain on peoples' parade, but the legal
opinions that get presented here, while tempting are generally simply
not true.


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