rec.autos.simulators

by **nascaro** » Thu, 10 May 2001 08:43:17

News announced here in dallas today that Texas Motor SPeedway (aka
Bruton Smith) has filed to sue CART for the MILLIONS it lost when Cart
cancelled the CART race at texas.
Im happy to see that... As a fan that bought a ticket to finally see a
CART race and be screwed by CART leaders. I will never attent any cart
race nor watch a cart race on TV again. When you treat your race fans
like they did, you dont deserve to be in business. This is entertainment
and the show must go on... I did not want to see any driver get hurt or
wreck but they are obligated by contract to perform and also to ensure
the safety of their drivers. They did neither in this situation. They
shouldve done more testing beforehand and they didnt..They jeprodized
their drivers up front by even allowing them to practice and qualify
there without adequately testing their first......
.

So, in a few months, Bruton Smith will own CART and merge it wilth IRL
and then ill go watch the new improved CART/IRL racing at texas

PassedYa

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 10 May 2001 08:59:55

And that, you sniveling whippet, means I will miss races at Road America,
Mid Ohio, Portland International RAceway, Laguna Seca, Toronto, Detroit,
Vancouver.
You may enjoy left turn only races...hey I do too..BUT I get as much or
more thrill from the turns in the other direction as well.
Suing before any attempt to recoup the losses is of course the American
Way.
dave(Yankee Doodle)henrie

by **Vintoo** » Thu, 10 May 2001 09:03:07

CART made a good call to cancel the race. I do agree that CART should
reimburse the fans since it was them that didn't test the track enough
before scheduling the event.

Vintook

by **David Butte** » Thu, 10 May 2001 09:15:04

You WHAT? The drivers are the ones risking their lives out there.
It's they who should have the final say, not circuit bosses, TV
execs, or even us poor fans. Sure it's a pain when a race you've
looked forward to is cancelled for safety reasons - we've probably
all experienced it at some time or other - but it's a damn sight
better than going ahead and ending up with a disaster.

Example: Adelaide GP, 1991. Appallingly wet conditions. The race was
stopped after 14 laps, and damn right too. In fact, it should never
have been started. Alain Prost was the bravest man that day, retiring
after one lap because he considered the conditions too dangerous -
Gerhard Berger said afterwards that he felt ashamed he didn't have
the guts to do the same. A disappointment for the fans, certainly -
but a full-length race would have had at least an even chance of
killing someone.

The day that a driver's obligations to entertain come before his
right to freedom from death and injury is the day I stop following
the sport.

Incidentally, what are the refund arrangements in the US? They can't
be any worse than Silverstone 2000...

--
David. (GPLRank handicap: -5.92; Monsters of GPLRank h/cap +287.02)
The GPL Scrapyard: http://scrapyard.9ug.com
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

by **Drew** » Thu, 10 May 2001 10:14:23

I don't see how admitting you made a mistake and cancelling a race can be
anything but a good thing. CART did test for the event, but did not attain
the speeds that were evident on the race weekend. They could have and
should have tested more, but when? CART has a long season and teams have
limited budgets. I assume that CART as an entity doesn't own cars that they
can send to a track for testing. And even if they did, what would it prove?
CART isn't a stock series where each team drives the same cars.

Personally I thought CART treated their fans just fine. They admitted they
made a mistake. Didn't blame anyone but themselves and prevented what
surely could have been a very black day in motor racing if the race went on.

I'd like to see CART and the IRL merge too, but not under IRL rule. Limited
and outdated technology, ovals, more ovals. Might as well strip the fenders
off of a NASCAR and acheive the same results.

by **Doug Millike** » Thu, 10 May 2001 11:17:13

> News announced here in dallas today that Texas Motor SPeedway (aka
> Bruton Smith) has filed to sue CART for the MILLIONS it lost when Cart
> cancelled the CART race at texas.
> Im happy to see that... As a fan that bought a ticket to finally see a
> CART race and be screwed by CART leaders. I will never attent any cart

Races on ovals are often cancelled for rain -- this was just another
unpredictable act of nature (in this case "the limit of human endurance").
Get over it.

by **Uncle Feste** » Thu, 10 May 2001 11:47:24

> The day that a driver's obligations to entertain come before his
> right to freedom from death and injury is the day I stop following
> the sport.

Hear, hear. I couldn't have said it better myself. Great post.

--

Fester

by **ymenar** » Thu, 10 May 2001 12:01:49

> So, in a few months, Bruton Smith will own CART and merge it wilth IRL
> and then ill go watch the new improved CART/IRL racing at texas

Troll-O-Meter :

_______________________
| |1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0|
|-|-------------------|
| | |
|L|=========== |
|R|=============== |
|_|___________________|

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Gaul** » Thu, 10 May 2001 12:39:50

And how great would Smith have looked had he pressured them to go ahead,
then had a driver or four die? Hell with him- maybe the drivers should
boycott races at tracks owned by someone who doesn't care about their
safety.

While I think they might have done a better job predicting this and am
disappointed in missing a race, that's a minor concern compared to the
drivers' safety.

by **Ale** » Thu, 10 May 2001 12:49:34

><snip>
>>This is
>>entertainment and the show must go on... I did not want to see any
>>driver get hurt or wreck but they are obligated by contract to
>>perform
><snip>

>You WHAT? The drivers are the ones risking their lives out there.
>It's they who should have the final say, not circuit bosses, TV
>execs, or even us poor fans. Sure it's a pain when a race you've
>looked forward to is cancelled for safety reasons - we've probably
>all experienced it at some time or other - but it's a damn sight
>better than going ahead and ending up with a disaster.

>Example: Adelaide GP, 1991. Appallingly wet conditions. The race was
>stopped after 14 laps, and damn right too. In fact, it should never
>have been started. Alain Prost was the bravest man that day, retiring
>after one lap because he considered the conditions too dangerous -
>Gerhard Berger said afterwards that he felt ashamed he didn't have
>the guts to do the same. A disappointment for the fans, certainly -
>but a full-length race would have had at least an even chance of
>killing someone.

I was surprised that they cancelled race. Was it difficult
to make temporary modifications to the track to slow down cars?
I remember in 1994 after Imola, there was a big safety issue in F1
and in Barcelona they didn't have time to improve the track, so
they used old tires to make a chicane at the long straight to
slow down cars (also leaving "escape route" for the cars that
were about to miss this chicane). Couple of similar chicanes on
the 2 straight in Texas would also probably reduce speed and
G-forces enough to make the race safe.

Alex
(alexti)

by **ymenar** » Thu, 10 May 2001 13:13:31

> I was surprised that they cancelled race. Was it difficult
> to make temporary modifications to the track to slow down cars?
> I remember in 1994 after Imola, there was a big safety issue in F1
> and in Barcelona they didn't have time to improve the track, so
> they used old tires to make a chicane at the long straight to
> slow down cars (also leaving "escape route" for the cars that
> were about to miss this chicane). Couple of similar chicanes on
> the 2 straight in Texas would also probably reduce speed and
> G-forces enough to make the race safe.

Chicanes on ovals?? Sorry, I just don't see how that would be possible. It
would be probably even more dangerous. The only chicane I've ever seen on
an oval is the old Monza oval back in the 20's and 30's. The straights are
banked, and the chassis is simply not made for those cars to slow down.
Brake pads are minimal.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 10 May 2001 13:46:15

Daytona uses a chicane OFF the oval. The SCGT desert oval shows how they
use ovals for sports cars.
A Bunch of tires or Haybales across the track. IIRC a few years ago, a
Trans Am event had quite the smashup when one of the cars lost it's brakes
and plowed into the chicane hay bales.
dave henrie

> > I was surprised that they cancelled race. Was it difficult
> > to make temporary modifications to the track to slow down cars?
> > I remember in 1994 after Imola, there was a big safety issue in F1
> > and in Barcelona they didn't have time to improve the track, so
> > they used old tires to make a chicane at the long straight to
> > slow down cars (also leaving "escape route" for the cars that
> > were about to miss this chicane). Couple of similar chicanes on
> > the 2 straight in Texas would also probably reduce speed and
> > G-forces enough to make the race safe.

> Chicanes on ovals?? Sorry, I just don't see how that would be possible.
It
> would be probably even more dangerous. The only chicane I've ever seen on
> an oval is the old Monza oval back in the 20's and 30's. The straights
are
> banked, and the chassis is simply not made for those cars to slow down.
> Brake pads are minimal.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Sideshow Bo** » Thu, 10 May 2001 14:01:24

: Chicanes on ovals??

The ALMS series does it sometimes (IIRC, they just use traffic cones, too)
but that's as part of a oval/infield "road" track. A pure oval with
chicanes would be too strange.

Besides... Paul Tracy would likely take out all the cones on the first lap
anyway

:-)

Dale.

by **Matt Lanze** » Thu, 10 May 2001 20:33:28

> So, in a few months, Bruton Smith will own CART and merge it wilth IRL
> and then ill go watch the new improved CART/IRL racing at texas

> PassedYa

Boy... That'd be great. Ugh.
CART should pay back the sanctioning fee and take care of administrative
expenses for the weekend, and TMS should pay back the ticket-buyers... just
like a race was never scheduled. Then CART should slap the fuk outta Rahal
for saying CART was gonna race there in the first place. It was nothing more
than a knee-jerk reaction to the (admittedly good) IRL race there last year.

Warlock!

by **Alexpe** » Thu, 10 May 2001 23:27:21

I can see a big pile of trouble heading nascars way, i wouldnt worry too
much about cart problems, theyre small fry compared to whats going to
happen.

pez

rec.autos.simulators

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!

Bruton Smith Suing CART-GOOD!