rec.autos.simulators

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

jalo

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by jalo » Tue, 16 Feb 1999 04:00:00

You have got to be kidding, right? I don't have GPL working right at this
moment, I'm going to have to check, and see for myself, as soon as I get
another wheel.

Ian Wrigh

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by Ian Wrigh » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00

If you get an adrenaline rush, then you're having fun IMO.

Example:  I had an online race at Watkins Glen tonight - I was in a bunch of four
close, high speed racers, coming out of the big bend at full throttle, the car in
front suddenly swerved left - I saw why, a backmarker appeared out of nowhere,
stationary in the middle of the track.  I missed him by the narrowest of
margins... it was pretty exciting I tell you what,  and it's not something you
can experience when using the "Nintendo view" or Shift-R races.

Also has anyone noticed that if you stop at the side of the road, a car speeding
past makes your car rock gently... that's great physics.

Ian

Paul Jone

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by Paul Jone » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Yeah, VROC is amazing fun. Two great races hosted by G.Wilson tonight - thanks GW.
One at Monza, one at Kyalami. Full grids, very little warp. Went through my Kyalami
PB 3 times. I caught the tail-ender though :-(
Cheers,
Paul

> If you get an adrenaline rush, then you're having fun IMO.

> Example:  I had an online race at Watkins Glen tonight - I was in a bunch of four
> close, high speed racers, coming out of the big bend at full throttle, the car in
> front suddenly swerved left - I saw why, a backmarker appeared out of nowhere,
> stationary in the middle of the track.  I missed him by the narrowest of
> margins... it was pretty exciting I tell you what,  and it's not something you
> can experience when using the "Nintendo view" or Shift-R races.

> Also has anyone noticed that if you stop at the side of the road, a car speeding
> past makes your car rock gently... that's great physics.

> Ian

John Walla

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by John Walla » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00


>  Racing is a tense and even rather grim business, isnt it? I know Jackie
>Stewart talking about banishing all pleasant and light hearted thoughts from
>his mind well before a race started. In any case, if the competition is good
>and you are actually trying to *BEAT* them, there dosent (off the top of my
>head) seem to be much call for 'fun' to be an issue in a sim  ..at least if
>the objective is to mimic real life action. But do we want a little fun??

Racing _is_ fun. Period, full stop, end of story. It can be many other
things, dangerous, grim, downright ***, but at the bottom of
everything, the reason why Jacke Stewart was even there in the first
place, was because he enjoyed driving cars and driving them as fast as
he could. Any race-driver will tell you that. I believe at some point
the danger, pressure and competitive atmosphere *could* overshadow the
fun, but I certainly never found it.

A story I've told here before but which always brings a smile to my
face is about precisely that aspect. An interviewer was touring the
Adelaide pitlane prior to the '94 Hill/Schumacher showdown,
interviewing all the drivers on what they thought about racing, F1,
the competition, the danger. All gave "the Coulthard answer",
professional, PR-friendly, nice soundbites about responsibility to
team, sponsors, the need to race safely, environmentally conscious
etc. The interviewer then came to Alesi, who sat and contemplated for
a few seconds before a massive grin split his face - "I do F1 because
it is such a HUGE fun". That's the answer I think the others would
give if they were being honest.

Sims are an extension of this, and while you can still have a small
measure of the pressure you can have none on the danger and much of
the fun. If I'm not getting paid and I'm not having fun then I'm not
going to spend my spare time doing it! :-)  Even (especially) GPL is
"fun" for me, outweighing by far all other considerations.

Cheers!
John

David Ewin

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by David Ewin » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00


> Yeah, VROC is amazing fun. Two great races hosted by G.Wilson tonight - thanks GW.
> One at Monza, one at Kyalami. Full grids, very little warp. Went through my Kyalami
> PB 3 times. I caught the tail-ender though :-(

Paul, and the race before you got there was an intermediate long race
with a full field of 20 drivers at Monza - and 15 guys made it to the
finish!  Great stuff (and a big thank you to G. Wilson).

Dave Ewing (To paraphrase Jean Alesi, "I do GPL because it is such a
HUGE fun")

Tony Rickar

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by Tony Rickar » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00

Spot on (as ever) John.

Without AI or on-line human opposition, the sheer joy of running countless
laps on my own around Watkins Glen during the 'demo months' is hard to
understand - it just conveys the feeling of driving on & over the edge. Once
you add the racing factor of other drivers it IS great fun.

I guess the fun factor can lessen if it becomes an obsession to better other
drivers hotlaps - which is a problem created by the internet. I was
blissfully unaware I wasn't the greatest F1GP driver - cos I won at the
highest level. Once I got on the Net I found all these add-ons to boost the
F1GP AI to make it a challenge for the quick drivers.

Most sports we are involved in are at a local level, so many can be top of
their field. Net racing is world wide, so whilst we can be relatively good
the competition is on a world wide level - this can be disheartening seeing
that my low 1:05s (which seemed impossible a few months ago) at the Glen
just don't cut it with the quick guys. I just have to be philosophical about
it or the fun element goes away - to be replaced by obsessive practicing.

I do wonder about some computer games. Clearly I am biased cos I love motor
racing, but I question whether platform games for instance are fun - or
whether the only motivation to play is to finish the level & move on. I find
single player Quake can suffer from the same desire to complete it rather
than enjoy it. Deathmatch is totally different - I don't do it very often so
I get stuffed by the good guys - but it is total fun.

Perhaps GPL seems too much like hard work for some, but thats hobbies for
you - some people push themselves to physical & mental limits within their
hobbies - were all different & our perception of fun likewise. For the party
animals spending an evening racing on the internet is perceived as sad.
Definitions of fun are extremely personal.

Cheers

Tony

Cheers

Tony


>Racing _is_ fun. Period, full stop, end of story. It can be many other
>things, dangerous, grim, downright ***, but at the bottom of
>everything, the reason why Jacke Stewart was even there in the first
>place, was because he enjoyed driving cars and driving them as fast as
>he could. Any race-driver will tell you that. I believe at some point
>the danger, pressure and competitive atmosphere *could* overshadow the
>fun, but I certainly never found it.

>A story I've told here before but which always brings a smile to my
>face is about precisely that aspect. An interviewer was touring the
>Adelaide pitlane prior to the '94 Hill/Schumacher showdown,
>interviewing all the drivers on what they thought about racing, F1,
>the competition, the danger. All gave "the Coulthard answer",
>professional, PR-friendly, nice soundbites about responsibility to
>team, sponsors, the need to race safely, environmentally conscious
>etc. The interviewer then came to Alesi, who sat and contemplated for
>a few seconds before a massive grin split his face - "I do F1 because
>it is such a HUGE fun". That's the answer I think the others would
>give if they were being honest.

>Sims are an extension of this, and while you can still have a small
>measure of the pressure you can have none on the danger and much of
>the fun. If I'm not getting paid and I'm not having fun then I'm not
>going to spend my spare time doing it! :-)  Even (especially) GPL is
>"fun" for me, outweighing by far all other considerations.

>Cheers!
>John

Paul Jone

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by Paul Jone » Wed, 17 Feb 1999 04:00:00

I seldom win an online race in GPL - perhaps I have won 4 or 5 out of 100. But
it's still amazing fun and there are always people around your pace to compete
with and pretty soon you recognise all their names and can see what sort of race
it's going to be. Thank heaven all those other middling racers find it worth
racing online because if only the real ***s raced then I would find it
rather dull. If you forget the thought of beating Tadej Krev, Ian Lake, Roos,
Rick Prydden, Barry Stoch, Ian Parker etc then you set yourself reasonable
targets and have a ball.
Racing the AI is dull as dishwater by comparison. I'd rather be thrashed online
(as usual) than beat Clark and Hill at Grand Prix level. There's no adreneline
involved with the AI, no pressure - ther's no "shoot, I'm in the lead - my God -
can I hold it? - just 4 laps left - don't overrev, idiot, you'll blow her -
you've got 4 seconds on him - oh Christ! a backmarker - hell I hope he's seen or
heard me - why's he racing me? - YOU *&"&^"% - oh, well 2nd is great" :-)
Cheers,
Paul

> Spot on (as ever) John.

> Without AI or on-line human opposition, the sheer joy of running countless
> laps on my own around Watkins Glen during the 'demo months' is hard to
> understand - it just conveys the feeling of driving on & over the edge. Once
> you add the racing factor of other drivers it IS great fun.

> I guess the fun factor can lessen if it becomes an obsession to better other
> drivers hotlaps - which is a problem created by the internet. I was
> blissfully unaware I wasn't the greatest F1GP driver - cos I won at the
> highest level. Once I got on the Net I found all these add-ons to boost the
> F1GP AI to make it a challenge for the quick drivers.

> Most sports we are involved in are at a local level, so many can be top of
> their field. Net racing is world wide, so whilst we can be relatively good
> the competition is on a world wide level - this can be disheartening seeing
> that my low 1:05s (which seemed impossible a few months ago) at the Glen
> just don't cut it with the quick guys. I just have to be philosophical about
> it or the fun element goes away - to be replaced by obsessive practicing.

> I do wonder about some computer games. Clearly I am biased cos I love motor
> racing, but I question whether platform games for instance are fun - or
> whether the only motivation to play is to finish the level & move on. I find
> single player Quake can suffer from the same desire to complete it rather
> than enjoy it. Deathmatch is totally different - I don't do it very often so
> I get stuffed by the good guys - but it is total fun.

> Perhaps GPL seems too much like hard work for some, but thats hobbies for
> you - some people push themselves to physical & mental limits within their
> hobbies - were all different & our perception of fun likewise. For the party
> animals spending an evening racing on the internet is perceived as sad.
> Definitions of fun are extremely personal.

> Cheers

> Tony

John Walla

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by John Walla » Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:00:00


>   I'd call that an adrenaline rush, but I sure wouldnt want to feel that way
>'all the time' ..if you get my meaning. (and all of you guys who regularly sit
>at home and lean back in a chair too far for 'fun' while nobody else is home,
>you are SICK!) :-)

Many times I have sat with my legs*** out of an aeroplane door at
12,000ft ready to hurl myself out into space, and apart from feeling
much colder the adrenalin rush is much the same - as is the sick and
giddy feeling of falling and disorientation. It just lasts much
longer!

And yes, it is fun - a HELL of a lot of fun :-)

Cheers!
John

PS - Wear a parachute, it helps....

Paul Jone

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by Paul Jone » Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:00:00


>      Laughing. Hmmm, mabey *you* should take a page from Johns book and wear a
> parachute. On the plus side, the low hardware requirements for what you are
> doing is a big advantage  :)

For this kind of activity I think soft wear (sic) is better :-)
Cheers,
Paul
John Walla

What does 'fun' have to do with it?

by John Walla » Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:56:00 -0000, "Tony Rickard"


>I guess the fun factor can lessen if it becomes an obsession to better other
>drivers hotlaps - which is a problem created by the internet.

Hotlapping is a totally false comparison, and one which I dislike as a
means of comparison.

"Who is the fastest" in real life comes from the driver who, in a
given number of laps, can best marshall his developed talents of
setup, driving and opportunism, with a bit of luck thrown in, to get
as close to their perception of the limit as they possibly can. In
sims drivers have all the time in the world to try setups, cut
corners, exceed the limit and gradually pind down precisely what is
and isn't possible in any given car. Whichever driver is prepared to
put the most time in will have an advantage, regardless of the talent,
setup skill or whatever.

It's a comparison and competition of sorts, but nothing akin to real
life.

Agreed. I played Half Life all the way through to the end and haven't
touched it since. OTOH I _still_ play Quake and Quake2 deathmatch but
have never played it through to the end. Recently I'm heavily into
"Tribes" which doesn't even HAVE a single-player mode! I got a mate to
send it to me from the U.S., since as ever it's not out in the UK so
far.

Defining others by your own beliefs and perceptions is sad, that's
about it.

Cheers!
John


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.