rec.autos.simulators

by **Joe Marque** » Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:32:09

Happy holidays!

I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I
currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I do
think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe it's
my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me
down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to try it
when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick one
going forward and need some advice.

Questions:

1. Which is better for online racing/*** and why?

2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one going
forward?

Thanks in advance.

--
Joe Marques

by **Stephen Smit** » Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:20:36

Joe,

DSL is better.

1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need fast
up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down.

2. You only have to pay for the speed you need.

3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are
online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down
during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as
more and more people sign up.

4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might have
as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will
eventually reduce prices way below cable.

--Steve Smith

by **Regular Race** » Mon, 01 Jan 2001 01:08:16

(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and
Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com.

-Cheers!!

by **ra300** » Mon, 01 Jan 2001 01:57:39

On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:20:36 GMT, "Stephen Smith"

>Joe,

>DSL is better.

>1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need fast
>up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down.

>2. You only have to pay for the speed you need.

Depends on the ISPs.

Depends on what the ISP does to maintain the high speeds. It hasn't
been a problem in my area in a couple of years.

In my area cable is definately much faster than ADSL.

This is very dependant on the company you are dealing with. In my
area cable service is solid. I wouldn't have been able to say that 2
years ago. But now it is solid except for the mail server (but who
uses ISP email anyways?) I would definately take Cable over ADSL in
my area.

Of course the comparison between ADSL and cable is very dependant on
the companies offering it.

by **Stephen Smit** » Mon, 01 Jan 2001 10:33:42

As I say, with cable, you don't get much of a choice, certainly not in
Upstate NY--RoadRunner is it. The speeds vary from abt. 170/170 to over 400
in each direction, depending on the time of day/month/year (Xmas is the
worst, as was the month after the so-called election).

In Brooklyn, I have a choice of 50 vendors, selling everything from abt.
150/300 to over 400 both ways.
RoadRunner charges abt. $40/mo. and has been very good with service.
However, I know guys who've had rr a lot longer than I have, and they say
both line and customer service begin to deteriorate after a year. The fees
in Brooklyn vary from abt. $30 to $60/mo., and if one vendor doesn't
execute, it's easy to find another who will. The only reason NOT to get DSL
is if it isn't available in yer area yet.

Wireless is barely faster than a shotgun modem.

--Steve

> On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 14:20:36 GMT, "Stephen Smith"

> >Joe,

> >DSL is better.

> >1. You choose the speed you need. If you mainly browse, you don't need
fast
> >up, but you want fast d/l's. For games, you want fast up AND down.

> >2. You only have to pay for the speed you need.

> Depends on the ISPs.

> >3. The speed is constant. With cable, it slows down the more people are
> >online (not the more people are watching TV). Not only does it slow down
> >during prime time (when you want it most), but it slows down over time as
> >more and more people sign up.

> Depends on what the ISP does to maintain the high speeds. It hasn't
> been a problem in my area in a couple of years.

> In my area cable is definately much faster than ADSL.

> >4. Unlike cable, where you generally only have one provider, you might
have
> >as many as 50 providers for DSL. Competition keeps them sharp, and will
> >eventually reduce prices way below cable.

> This is very dependant on the company you are dealing with. In my
> area cable service is solid. I wouldn't have been able to say that 2
> years ago. But now it is solid except for the mail server (but who
> uses ISP email anyways?) I would definately take Cable over ADSL in
> my area.

> Of course the comparison between ADSL and cable is very dependant on
> the companies offering it.

by **Alison Hin** » Mon, 01 Jan 2001 11:57:14

Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg!

Another possibility is MSN Satellite:

http://essentials.msn.com/access/satellite.asp

It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new
PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be
installable on any PC.

Alison

Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me.
http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

by **Dash** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:06:16

> Thanks for the link to Sprint Broadband, Reg!

> Another possibility is MSN Satellite:

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> It's supposedly available now at Radio Shack, but you have to buy a new
> PC from Radio Shack to get it. The next version is supposed to be
> installable on any PC.

> Alison

> >(If it's available in your area,) SPRINT Broadband Wireless beats DSL and
> >Cable hands down. www.sprintbroadband.com.

> >-Cheers!!

> Alison

You might want to reseach these because I have read that they have good
bandwidth, but the latency is high. This makes for bad online ***,
especially racing and flight sims.

Dash

by **Eldre** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:41:51

>As I say, with cable, you don't get much of a choice, certainly not in
>Upstate NY--RoadRunner is it. The speeds vary from abt. 170/170 to over 400
>in each direction, depending on the time of day/month/year (Xmas is the
>worst, as was the month after the so-called election).

>In Brooklyn, I have a choice of 50 vendors, selling everything from abt.
>150/300 to over 400 both ways.
>RoadRunner charges abt. $40/mo. and has been very good with service.
>However, I know guys who've had rr a lot longer than I have, and they say
>both line and customer service begin to deteriorate after a year. The fees
>in Brooklyn vary from abt. $30 to $60/mo., and if one vendor doesn't
>execute, it's easy to find another who will. The only reason NOT to get DSL
>is if it isn't available in yer area yet.

There's a strange thing going on here. I'm in a MAJOR metro area(Detroit), and
I haven't found ANY providers for my neighborhood. Oh sure, there are
companies that SAY they provide coverage in the city, but that don't have
anything in the 6 or 7 zip codes that I've checked... Damn liars...

Eldred - I hate the holiday season....
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Gordon McLachla** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 02:35:58

If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not be an
improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happier with
DSL.

IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cable runs
at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years.

MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performance has
become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems,
though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over the last
three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless
as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better
servers in my leagues.

In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing
through the Internet backbone that has been the issue.

OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably host
using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons.

OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in my leagues.
The pings to the first hop from the host are often high.

Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of
companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL, but
they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are
universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no
control over the network or equipment installtion.

IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only the Baby
Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford
the infrastructure.

While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hops between
you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some
races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way to really
compare.

Regards,
Gordon

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:41:49

You mean there are 'other' kinds of computer games besides Racing and
flying? :)
dave henrie

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:53:19

Out west here in AT&T broadband land, they have capped out upload
capability at 128k. Due, they say, to nefarious users violating the user
agreement against maintaining servers. So they punish all users to control
the few...
dave henrie

> If you have been happy with your cable service, DSL will probably not be
an
> improvement. If you have a crappy cable ISP, then you might be happier
with
> DSL.

> IMO, the shared-media argument against cable is a red herring. My cable
runs
> at 1.5 mbps down and 325 mpbs up after three years.

> MediaOne/RoadRunner has generally managed to upgrade before performance
has
> become an issue. This is not to say that there haven't been problems,
> though. For two extended periods of about 1-1 1/2 months each, over the
last
> three years, I have had some routing problems that made my system useless
> as a server on GPL. The rest of the time, I have had one of the better
> servers in my leagues.

> In both cases though, it was not the local cable loop, but the routing
> through the Internet backbone that has been the issue.

> OTOH, Some of the folks in my leagues have never been able to reliably
host
> using their cable connections, for unknown, and unresolved reasons.

> OTOOH, I have NEVER been able to race reliably on a DSL host in my
leagues.
> The pings to the first hop from the host are often high.

> Competion in the DSL market is an illusion. There are only a handful of
> companies providing the actual DSL service. Many ISPs are offering DSL,
but
> they are typically reselling service from one of the CLECs. They are
> universally useless in providing technical support, because they have no
> control over the network or equipment installtion.

> IMO, in several years, the DSL industry will consolidate, and only the
Baby
> Bells, wireless companies and other large telecomms will be able to afford
> the infrastructure.

> While you have both installed, compare the pings and number of hops
between
> you and some of the better known servers out there. Also try hosting some
> races and get people to send you traceroutes. That's the only way to
really
> compare.

> Regards,
> Gordon

> > Happy holidays!

> > I always come here for OT advice and I've never been disappointed. I
> > currently have Comcast cable modem service and am satisfied with it. I
do
> > think it's getting slower at prime-time which is around 8-9pm (or maybe
> it's
> > my imagination since I know the shared network will eventually bog me
> > down!). Just got offered a free month of Verizon DSL so I'm going to
try
> it
> > when it's activated 1-11-01 (640k residential service). I need to pick
> one
> > going forward and need some advice.

> > Questions:

> > 1. Which is better for online racing/*** and why?

> > 2. Anything I should know about either service before I commit to one
> going
> > forward?

> > Thanks in advance.

> > --
> > Joe Marques

by **Kevi** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:55:00

Gordon,

I guess I should try league hosting with my dsl again. Most people have had
very good connects to my dsl host, with Gordon being an exception. I had
terrible connects to his cable at the same time, and as Gordon said, it
appeared that the problems both directions were caused by routing.

We have at least 6 or 7 people in our leagues with cable connects that have
never been able to host reliably.

progressively worse, until even the download speeds were below dial-up modem
speeds routinely. It also had a lot of outages, and the mail server was down
a lot. I got zero support from my Shaw ISP. After the first 6 months, I
couldn't host GPL with my cable service.

I've had dsl for over a year, and it has been absolutely rock solid. The
speed is consistent and excellent, and there have been zero outages. The
telcos still have a far different view of service reliability than the cable
companies.

In my area at least, I would take dsl over cable anytime. The ISP (Telus)
has excellent support, and the service works very well. I would think that
different areas have a different best solution.

Kevin Caldwell
Calgary, Canada

by **Phaso** » Tue, 02 Jan 2001 05:18:13

Good post - my experiences exactly. I've hit 400k/sec and don't usually go

cars in N4 with very little warping.

-Phasor