rec.autos.simulators

Analysis of West Racing Legends

Isotrip

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Isotrip » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:21:39


Can you prove this at the present time?

- Isotrip?

Isotrip

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Isotrip » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:25:14

WOW! And because you say "FACT" it must be true....

Care to PROVE it is a "fact", right now? :oP

- Isotrip?




> > > Except the tools and help to make any car and any venue you want will
be
> > > publicly available and tutorials given by Chris and Tony.

> >     This seems at odds with their distribution model, which appears to
> > depend heavily on sales of cars and tracks they have produced
themselves,
> so
> > I suspect making everything publically available will be a pretty low
> > priority.

> You suspect it's a low priority

> I KNOW that it's high priority.

> FACT

> Doug

Kendt Eklu

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Kendt Eklu » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:38:51


> True but that's a long term look at WRL. Basically WRL will start out real
> similar to GPL. Now if WRL lives up to the hype I'm sure it will make GPL
> look like a game. For alot of people WRL will be a huge investment between
> software and hardware. I think alot of people will have a hard time spending
> the coin for basically GPL2. Now if it was a different genre. I know I was
> less than impressed with the car choices. Now if they had done say Trans Am
> legends with Cougars, Mustangs, Camaros, and Cudas I'd be all over it.  I do
> like the legends vs. modern aspect of the game just so we have deal with
> these chicane laden versions of today's tracks.

Yes, but the point is that if you want to see something made for WRL,
it can be done, and the West's will be providing all the tools for
car/track modelling that would be needed.  You can be damn sure that
if the West's don't include something like Trans-Am or Can-Am, it will
be at the top of the list of user-made mods.  Little chance of it only
being GPL2.

My biggest concern is with the "shoot for the moon" aspect of the
whole thing.  If the West's are committed to getting a basic,
expandable product out soon, it may just emerge from the vapours.  If
they insist on including everything right away, then we're in for
another long wait.  Stuff like internal engine wear is cool, but it is
*not* something that's going to make me pony up $100+ for WRL.  Give
me any classic series, with a good selection of tracks/cars, and tools
for expansion and I'll be sold.  Oh yeah - and really good AI.  Still
no broadband where I live, but by the time WRL comes out, who knows
;)?

Any word if the West's have changed thier opinion of FF?  They were
once quoted as saying it made things *less* realistic since it
couldn't be done properly.  Not going to argue the point, but lack of
FF would be another thing that would keep me from buying WRL.

Kendt

Just upgraded my game PC to an AMD XP2100, MSI KT3 Ultra, 512mb PC2700
Ram, and have a Ti4200 on order - maybe it will handle WRL OK ;).

Jan Verschuere

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:56:25

Sure... play Williams F1 Racer (or somesuch), which also requires a pretty
beefy PC, ditto graphics card and supports FF wheels. At no point will this
trick you into believing you're driving a car on a virtual racetrack.

On the other hand, Nascar Racing 2 managed to immerse players before 3D
cards, FF wheels while running fairly well on a P200.

Ergo: "the software" is the deciding factor in producing immersion for the
player.

Jan.
=---

Steve Blankenshi

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Steve Blankenshi » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 03:57:00

Just wanted to say ditto to all your points of the day, Tim.  Lots of
questions and puzzle-pieces that don't quite seem to fit together on the
business side of this project, all lovely bits aside.  I have to doubt
whether the direct distribution model can work well enough here to float RL
as envisioned.  Where's a good VC when you need one? ;-)  Plus, as a
premium-price specialty product, they have a VERY high quality hurdle to
jump in what Papy/Sierra already offer on the mass market for $35-$40.  Just
imagine the howls over (inevitable) bugs at $100+ a copy, and the importance
of goodwill to net-only distribution.  Sheesh.

Still, I can't say I've seen a sim project I'd rather see work.  Best wishes
to 'em!

Fingers crossed & Visa card at the ready,

SB

Tony Rickar

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Tony Rickar » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:08:26


> > The software will contribute more to the feel of driving than adding
any
> > piece of hardware will. Hence justifying the cost.

> Can you prove this at the present time?

Prove that RL will contribute to an enhanced driving feel? - no

Prove software is the overriding factor in simulating driving feel? - an
opinion I would most definitely stand by.

Tony

Ronald Stoeh

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Ronald Stoeh » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 07:38:16

Larry schrieb:

I would, but this would have to be the complete package.

I'm especially worried about the packs like "damage", etc.
These features are basic elements of a racing sim. If none of
those are in the basic game, who would want it? In that
case those "optional" packs are anything but optional.

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

Joe Marque

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Joe Marque » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:28:46

I think we must use logic, context and common sense when analyzing the
add-on packs.  I suspect the add-ons will be ultra-realistic features that
take the basic options in the base game and bring them to state of the art
standards (damage, vehicle set-up, etc.).

Do you really think West Racing release a sim without any damage model?
Hell no.  Would an ADVANCED damage module that calculates real-time damage
to everything from a tire rim to a quarter-panel be a worthy add-on?  Hell
yes.

I know I'm speculating but think about it, how could they call the base
package a sim without ANY damage model?

--
Joe Marques


Rob

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Rob » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:21:21


You have heard what happens when you assume, right?  The only thing I can go
by is their website.  They are pushing a design concept with no real product
and that the product they are pushing is woefully incomplete for a "core
game."  I agree totally with the original poster. As listed on THEIR own
website, the "core game" is not even a core, just a basic physics engine
that will require half of the "expansion packs" to even function as an
accepted racing sim.

We'll see from the demo/beta.  These guys remind me of Derek Smart and
Funcom (makers of AO) - they promise the world and deliver a steaming pile
of crap.  Although to date, the West brothers have not delivered even that.

--
---------------------
Rob Berryhill

Ronald Stoeh

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Ronald Stoeh » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:53:10

Joe Marques schrieb:

Regarding software products in any context I gave up logic, context and
common sense about 15 years ago... ;)

There are games/sims without a damage model. Of course, a simple model
could be put in the base game and a complex model is optional. Now, if
the simple one doesn't equal N2002's damage model, I'd be disappointed
with it already.

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

Eldre

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Eldre » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:49:22



>> Nobody will buy it at that price.

>> No one will by it at $100.

>Why not?

>How could anyone justify a steering wheel for their PC in this case? GPL
>has outlasted more than one wheel here.

>The software will contribute more to the feel of driving than adding any
>piece of hardware will. Hence justifying the cost.

>We are racing sim enthusiasts. The software is the core.

The $100 wheel can be used for a multitude of programs...  The $100 game is
just ONE application.  Perceived value.  I'm sure SOME would pay $100 for a
game, but not a lot - unless the program is *spectacular*.

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Uncle Feste

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Uncle Feste » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:10:54



>>Theye didnt split from empire because of any probs with capital.. They
>>split because empire wanted to do a crappy arcade game and the wests
>>wanted to do.. well RL
>> dan

> Yea, and I posted that Empire would do this to them about two years ago
> (using a different user name). Maybe I should change my name to Nostradamus.

Is that what Nos was short for?

--

Fester

Joe Marque

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Joe Marque » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:04:50




> > I think we must use logic, context and common sense when analyzing the
> > add-on packs.  I suspect the add-ons will be ultra-realistic features
that
> > take the basic options in the base game and bring them to state of the
art
> > standards (damage, vehicle set-up, etc.).

> You have heard what happens when you assume, right?  The only thing I can
go
> by is their website.  They are pushing a design concept with no real
product
> and that the product they are pushing is woefully incomplete for a "core
> game."  I agree totally with the original poster. As listed on THEIR own
> website, the "core game" is not even a core, just a basic physics engine
> that will require half of the "expansion packs" to even function as an
> accepted racing sim.

Please list this "woefully incomplete core game".  Where did you see such an
incomplete feature set?  You're assuming the worst, I'm assuming much
better, we're both assuming so who will be the "ass"? ;0)

that.

Derek Smart is an idiot, these guys seem to have class and passion for
racing sims.  Apples to oranges.

--
Joe Marques

Joe Marque

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Joe Marque » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:07:11


Point taken. ;0)

I know it could very well ship with no damage model or a disappointing
damage model.  If it does than I think West Racing would lose credibility
and jeopardize the future of their product.  A sim is not a sim without some
decent damage model.

--
Joe Marques

Joe Marque

Analysis of West Racing Legends

by Joe Marque » Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:18:19



You assume their ties to Empire were for capital, what is this based on?  It
seems entirely reasonable that their association was based on a classic
distribution model that REQUIRED the capabilities of a company like Empire.
Their current distribution model does not require Empire or EA or Ubisoft or
any global distribution network.  Developing a racing sim is hardly de jure
capital intensive, your claim is nothing more than conjecture.  Of course I
wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of your point. ;0)

Your reluctance to accept testimonials from those who have driven WSC beta
doesn't prove anything other than your stubborness in the face of reasonable
proof.  Stubborness never changes facts and you have no proof beta code
doesn't exist.  What makes your claim MORE credible, because you say it is
so?  Pounding your chest hardest doesn't mean you're right.

--
Joe Marques


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