rec.autos.simulators

Dear Mr. 3DFX-Code Genius (Joe),

When will you make a 3rd-party 3DFX add-on for N2?...You've
had plenty of time to do so, and seem to feel that a 3D app is a
walk in the park.  So in all fairness, it's now up to you whether N2
gets 3DFX or not, thus allowing Papyrus to concentrate on more
mundane tasks, such as helping others with a problem or two.

1) They do what they do best: code racing software.
2) You do what you do best: post  nonsense.

Me thinks you've been blowing something else...it's as simple as
that.

Marc

A) That is the lamest possible argument, which is why it's normally
only used by the freshest newbies. Can only film makers be film
critics? Can only car makers review cars? I know you're not a newbie,
so don't give me this lamo crap.

B) I COULD and WOULD do it if I had the Nascar2 source code. I have
programmed practically every kind of computer in existence, with every
language from assembly code (for half a dozen different chipsets) to
C++ and other languages, and I've done low-level graphics and other
hardware programming. So, you get me the N2 source code, and I'll make
you a 3DFX patch.

Actually now that I think about it, I wonder why they haven't let a
3rd-party do this? You could charge say 5 bucks for the patch (i.e.,
downloaded from the net so there's no shipping charges) and probably
sell at least 10,000 of them. Or why not let an N2 programmer do it on
their weekends? The only answer I can think of is that Sierra is NOT
yet as committed to 3DFX support as they claim, and are still trying
to promote their own inferior card.

Joe

   Please tell me I'm not reading here what I think I am: anti-aliasing had to
be *actively removed* from the N2 Rendition port to meet the machine
requirements specs?  It was *otherwise ready to go* but was axed?  You
couldn't have put in a switch, or made it self-switching?  Printed "24 meg
required for anti-aliasing support" on the side of the box?  Man, this is
*SAD* if that's truly the case...

   From a guy who bought a new 32 meg, Rendition-based, P133 PC last fall
(admittedly for ICR-3D, not N2-3D, but N2-3D without anti-aliasing was a big
disappointment).  :(

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

Competition benefits the consumer, at least the thinking
consumer.  

3dfx make a good chipset, and have make good business decisions
in who they have targeted in both the consumer and the games
manufacturing industry.  My only doubt is their timing.

The majority of consumers know nothing about 3d acceleration ... it's
only now as games start to require acceleration that more people
begin to take notice.  By the time demand really grows, V2200 and
Riva128 will be available - and faster than the current generation
Voodoo.  IMO 3dfx should be getting a new card on the market ASAP
if they want to maintain their position in the market over the next
6 months.

I have a V1000 BTW - ICR2 is responsible for that.

Jet
Jet (remove *HATES_SPAM* from my address to email me)

They are.  It's called the Voodoo2...

--


http://ebusch.akorn.net

Jason Harrison wrote in article

I'm not acting, I am a newbie.  ;)

Critic you're not, spiteful you are.  It's OK to complain about one
thing or another, it's an entirely different issue when you reach
out and are down-right mean (and without foundation).  True, my
own post to you was sarcastic in form, albiet less any duragatory
comments.  I guess you still don't get the point.

If you have the experience you claim to have, reverse engineering
the N2 code should be a walk in the park.  Why do I sense you
actually know less about the internal stucture of various coding,
than you do about relating with your fellow man?  ;)

I agree with the 3rd party aspect.  Altough I personally wouldn't
charge for anything for the games, the time may be upon us that
we'll see more of a "if you like the program, please send a couple
of bucks so I can do the next...", we'll see.

I can't comment on what Sierra's involment (or how commited
they are) to the 3dfx tech, as I don't have the answers.  I think
GPL is designed as 3dfx/d3d, and that SODA will get a 3dfx patch,
but until that happens we can only speculate.

As for "their inferior card", true 3dfx is miles above the older R-
chipset, but they probably have either quite a bit of backstock, or
some sort of license agreement with Rendition to buy X-amount
of units...Probably the later, but I don't really know - just food for
thought.

Cheers!

Marc

Why do I sense that if you had anything to offer but mindless insults,
people might not be so aware that you are a newbie?

Not likely. The shareware market has always been a very poor way to
fund software development. No matter how good the software is only a
tiny percentage of users register and pay. It's not generally worth
trying to do business that way, so it will remain the fringe market
it's always been.

Joe

Makes perfect sense. As I recall N2 had enough problems without
additional hassles of 3dFX support.

So back to the program of looking forward to GPL (drool) - thanks for
taking the time to set things straight.

Cheers!
John

PS - "GPL (drool)" is now the official name of Grand Prix Legends (for
me at least) :)

In any case, what is wrong with having one company who drives on the
technical standard, forcing others to equal them on features and then
challenge them on price. Ask yourself where we would be WITHOUT Intel
before knocking them. You'd probably still have an AMD 486-800Mhz
since AMD would have no reason to develop anything to challenge the
Pentium.

Yes, but there's precious few of those. Competition benefits EVERYONE,
not just the "thinking consumer". Some will think, some will follow
the herd or the hype - either way they get a better product.

3dFX is undoubtedly the best _now_ as interest is accelerating - all
the magazines are full of it and games are appearing with dedicated
3dFX support. It's also extremely cheap and 3dFX have already made
their money. Anyone else arriving on the scene has to compete with
that price level and the established product. Added to that the fact
that the new cards are little faster if at all - I reckon 3dFX have it
pretty much right. They have a new card in the works, but why hype it
now and spoil sales of current products? As soon as a serious threat
comes along they can hype their new card to the hilt to slow sales of
the newcomer, but not before - simple classic marketing.

I have both - ICR2 is also responsible for that!

Cheers!
John

Think how many 3d-hardware games there would be if there was a similar
standard for 3d hardware. (Mind you this wouldn't be needed id D3D
wasn't so lame.)

Joe

But then I wonder how a semi-intelligent person skilled in software
development could "think about it" and then still "wonder why [Papyrus
has]n't let a 3rd-party [port N2 to 3Dfx]"

Clearly, porting N2 to 3Dfx in any potentially profitably scenario
requires the source code for N2. Thus, allowing a 3rd-party to do this
would require releasing the source code (akin to the Papyrus family
jewels) to a 3rd-party...

Does that help stop the wondering?

---Jim

Furthermore, anyone who really knows anything about the software
industry knows that the "family jewels" are NOT a specific software
product, no matter how successful, since all such products have a
limited 1-2 year life span. The "family jewels" of a software company
are the people who know how to create such products, not the
short-lived products themselves. Every software development company
that is successful over the long term knows this.

Joe

Joe

How many products came from that engine? Sure seems like the family
jewels to me. The people are important undoubtedly, but no reason to
give away the eggs while*** onto that Golden Goose.

Cheers!
John

Type 1: The old-fashioned kind. Everything is secret. Games are
business only. Better wear a tie&suit. Before you make a game
you do market research. Programmers work 9-5. Company is run
by MBAs that couldn't care less for the actual product (i.e.
computer games). Only care about profit margins to please
stockholders. Most known in this category: Sierra & EA.

Type 2: New kind of company. Run by enthusiasts. Don't
mind trying completely new strategies. Most well known
revolutionary strategy: Release a game as shareware.
Don't mind releasing source code (John Carmack has said
the Doom code is going public domain before christmas).
Programmers are allowed to talk publically about coding/
artwork (check out .plans for ID guys sometime).
Most known company: ID. Also, Raven, IonStorm.

Type 2 would make a 3dfx/D3D patch just becuase they'd
like to see what it looks like and because it's 'cool'.
Type 1 wouldn't make a patch since the programmers can't
seem to explain what a 3dfx board is to the MBA running
the company.

I hope the Type 2 companies prove successfull and run type 1
out of business... :)

--
Markus

Much of the physics code (the closest code-equivalent to the family
jewels) in N2 traces its lineage directly to Indy 500:The Simulation.
The basic structure of the track representation comes from the same era.
The software perspective correct texture mapper comes from ICR1. The AI
comes from N1. (A 1996 game using plenty of important code from a
products more than 1-2 years old, in a lot of case from 1989.)

Here, you are completely correct. That doesn't mean that enforcing tight
security over the code isn't a good idea.

---Jim