rec.autos.simulators

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

Steven Dawkin

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Steven Dawkin » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

I am looking for a F1 simulator (to replace F1 97 - which is a bit,
well, rubbish)

It seems that I buy GP2 or GPL - hmm, what variety.

Having had a look around, I'm beginning to think that this particular
*** area suffers from two annoying faults:

1- The marketing is awful - there is a real lack of reliable information.

For example,
The "official" FIA tag appears to move about as often as a new PC video board
is released (i.e. every two weeks). I recently heard that Electronic Arts had
won FIA
approval, but Eidos seem to be using the 1998 data for a game its about to
release.
Does it change every year? What is going on? I notice Eidos seem to have
absolutely
nothin on there web site about this despite sim racing news stating its due
for
release next week.

Wouldn't it be
better assess one developer and allow them theFIA  licence for several years,
building
up some kind of brand ownership that would allow the buying public to have
some continuity? This would allow the developers to actually develop better
understanding and contacts within the sport as well as allowing the game
buyer
a support path and some continuity to upgrade. I know GP 2 does this - but
the simulator developers are missing an opportunity to develop simulators in
the
long term - they all appear to want to be the best for one week, make a
killing
and get out. This maybe why the FIA licence moves about so frequently.

This means  that you cannot ensure that the FIA licence comes
with a Quality simulation  (Formula 1 97 for example). Which is terrible.
Surely the FIA should represent a quality product to reflect the standard of
the series? Maybe Bernie Ecclestone just takes the cash.

Driver endor***ts seem to follow
a similar trend. (With the possible exception of Jacques Villeneuve's
unoffical
endor***t of GP2.) I hear the Johnny Herbert game is a bit of a no-no.

2. The second fault is a total lack of originallity. They all seem to be
"race around  these 16 tracks, win the championship, goodbye".
They only seem to differ in the graphics and sound support
and extent to which you can customise the car. Excuse me,
but, how about a bit of additional interest? For example, Toca 2
allows your to enter support races, Colin McRae has a Rally school.
At the very least, it might be interesting if the Grand Prix simulators
actually allowed you to drive into  the pits yourself or see movement
in the crowd - maybe show other views of the track on the trackside
monitors whilst you pass them. Do any of the more recent f1 simulators
ask you to line up behind a safety car during a race? Run the formation
lap? Perform testing off season? Work on introducing new features
to the car? Damage your car if you run over debris from a shunt?
Please tell me - the marketing blurb doesn't.

I don't know, the whole thing seems to lack innovation to me - of
course I would  not wish to buy an "arcade" f1 game - but the
developers of F1 games have  the imagination of a cold wet haddock
- or maybe its just that F1 itself needs a bit of a warm up.

Yes, Yes, I know GPL is great, but thats the one innovation in a pretty
grotty industry. It appears that its GP2 or GPL - I doubt any other industry
could survive if it only produced two innovations in two years.

Bit annoyed about this - It seems that the Formula 1 tag is being devalued
in the games industry as far as can tell.

Driver

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Driver » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

<snipe>

Have you tried F1RS or MGPRS2? You did not mention those in your post.
MGPRS2 is quite good (not as good as GPL, of course).
Eidos Official Formula 1 was developed by another company, I believe
Lankhor. Not much is known about it, and it's odd that it doesn't have a web
site. Very strange actually, for a game coming out in about 2 weeks.

Te

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Te » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 05 May 1999 16:57:29 +0100, Steven Dawkins


>It seems that I buy GP2 or GPL - hmm, what variety.

Come on, the one is 3 years old and the other not really exactly a
simulation of current F1 (I guess that's what you're looking for)...
certainly you'll find a couple of alternatives.

A FOCA license is not given out exclusively. Everyone who has too much
money can buy it and incorporate into their game. It's of course no
guarantee for quality (see Psygnosis who managed to have the license
for 3 years and still produced just crap)

I'm not aware of a support path for GP2. In fact it's got absolutely
*no* support from official side whatsoever.

MGPRS got a few extras like scenario mode where you can re-play
certain real situations (i.e. Jerez 97 etc) or a career mode.

Is it any different with other simulations? I don't think there where
too many good CART/Indycar<insert whatever you like> sims either...

--

Tel
                                   http://tel.tsx.org
                                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
a.k.a. Holger Bachert                   Cars & Design

UnserFan

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by UnserFan » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

What are you smoking?!  MGPRS2 and F1RS are not even half as realistic as GP2
is!  At least in GP2 you get a sense of how hard you can push your car before
it begins to get loose or to push.  In F1RS and the demo for MGPRS2 that I've
played, the physics just feel so canned!

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited

^Frett

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by ^Frett » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

Here is a site for OF1;
http://perso.club-internet.fr/beko/of1r/
Enjoy


> <snipe>

> >- or maybe its just that F1 itself needs a bit of a warm up.

> >Yes, Yes, I know GPL is great, but thats the one innovation in a pretty
> >grotty industry. It appears that its GP2 or GPL - I doubt any other
> industry
> >could survive if it only produced two innovations in two years.

> >Bit annoyed about this - It seems that the Formula 1 tag is being devalued
> >in the games industry as far as can tell.

> Have you tried F1RS or MGPRS2? You did not mention those in your post.
> MGPRS2 is quite good (not as good as GPL, of course).
> Eidos Official Formula 1 was developed by another company, I believe
> Lankhor. Not much is known about it, and it's odd that it doesn't have a web
> site. Very strange actually, for a game coming out in about 2 weeks.

  no_spam.n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download
^Frett

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by ^Frett » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

This is odd? I feel that it is the exact opposite here. This brings up another
question: If so many on R.A.S. have opposite subjective opinions {imho}
how can we have a "seal of approval" on any sim/arcade race type game?
Just curious?? Cheers Thom_j.

  no_spam.n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download
Dino

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Dino » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00


> On Wed, 05 May 1999 16:57:29 +0100,


> >I am looking for a F1 simulator (to replace F1 97 - which is a bit,
> >well, rubbish)

> >It seems that I buy GP2 or GPL - hmm, what variety.

> Also F1RS, Monaco Grand Prix Racing, Official F1.

> There's a glut of F1 sims...

I think his point is that there have been no *quality* modern F1 simulators
since GP2......I agree. OF1 hasn't been released yet but I'm not holding my
breath in anticipation.

David Noe

Driver

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Driver » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

Let's not get on one of those GP2 is better than MGPRS2, ok.
If you like GP2, fine. He was asking if there are any good F1sims, MGPRS2 is
the best of the "current" sims.

Jean-Francois Lepag

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Jean-Francois Lepag » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00


> >>Yes, Yes, I know GPL is great, but thats the one innovation in a pretty
> >>grotty industry. It appears that its GP2 or GPL - I doubt any other
> >industry
> >>could survive if it only produced two innovations in two years.

> What are you smoking?!  MGPRS2 and F1RS are not even half as realistic as GP2
> is!  At least in GP2 you get a sense of how hard you can push your car before
> it begins to get loose or to push.  In F1RS and the demo for MGPRS2 that I've
> played, the physics just feel so canned!

hehehe...you are the one smoking bad stuff! ;+)

How do you evaluate a full product by a tiny demo? Are you test driving a car by
starting the engine and going at the next stop light? hehehe...get real!

How can you get sense of when the car tends to get loose when there is no force
feedback in GP2??? Am I missing something?
Yes MGPRS2 has it's flaws, but it's the only modern F1 racer there is available
on the market!

Cheers!

--
Jean-Francois Lepage
Web designer & 3D Artist/Animator

__________________________________________
The Web's World
http://www.supernet.ca/~stealth/index.html
Includes:
-Inspire 3D & LightWave Resources
-The AirSpace
-The Unofficial Fly! Web Site

Kai Fulle

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Kai Fulle » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00

this only for the people like the F1RS MGPRS2 games :)

is F1RS much differant than MGPRS2? F1RS comes with the Logitech wheel and I
was just wondering if it was about the same as MGPRS2, or will I be driving
a dated game? I'll be geeting SC:GT also so F1RS will be my refined sim for
now... some other arcade game comes with it, I hope that it's good too, but
It'd be best to come with NFS3 or something...



>> >>Yes, Yes, I know GPL is great, but thats the one innovation in a pretty
>> >>grotty industry. It appears that its GP2 or GPL - I doubt any other
>> >industry
>> >>could survive if it only produced two innovations in two years.

>> What are you smoking?!  MGPRS2 and F1RS are not even half as realistic as
GP2
>> is!  At least in GP2 you get a sense of how hard you can push your car
before
>> it begins to get loose or to push.  In F1RS and the demo for MGPRS2 that
I've
>> played, the physics just feel so canned!

>hehehe...you are the one smoking bad stuff! ;+)

>How do you evaluate a full product by a tiny demo? Are you test driving a
car by
>starting the engine and going at the next stop light? hehehe...get real!

>How can you get sense of when the car tends to get loose when there is no
force
>feedback in GP2??? Am I missing something?
>Yes MGPRS2 has it's flaws, but it's the only modern F1 racer there is
available
>on the market!

>Cheers!

>--
>Jean-Francois Lepage
>Web designer & 3D Artist/Animator

>__________________________________________
>The Web's World
>http://www.supernet.ca/~stealth/index.html
>Includes:
>-Inspire 3D & LightWave Resources
>-The AirSpace
>-The Unofficial Fly! Web Site

DMFin

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by DMFin » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00


> Come on, the one is 3 years old
> Is it any different with other simulations? I don't think there where
> too many good CART/Indycar<insert whatever you like> sims either...

ICR2 was and still is the best Cart sim! Oh my, I forgot its' too old :(
ymenar

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by ymenar » Thu, 06 May 1999 04:00:00


But that doesn't mean that the physics are good.

That also doesn't mean that the graphics are accurate, or realistic.  More
cartoon than before, but at least they made some improvement on the shadow
side.  But how can you say better graphics when there's no FIA or
advertising sponsor license ?

You should only need a***pit view in a racing sim.

That doesn't mean that the online racing is good.

You gained 2, but you lost 1 track also.

But that doesn't mean that they are good and accurate racing simulators.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Driver

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Driver » Fri, 07 May 1999 04:00:00


>this only for the people like the F1RS MGPRS2 games :)

>is F1RS much differant than MGPRS2? F1RS comes with the Logitech wheel and
I
>was just wondering if it was about the same as MGPRS2, or will I be driving
>a dated game? I'll be geeting SC:GT also so F1RS will be my refined sim for
>now... some other arcade game comes with it, I hope that it's good too, but
>It'd be best to come with NFS3 or something...

MGPRS2 is the updated version of F1RS. It has better physics, updated
graphics, more driving views, a game service that lets you play on line, and
a couple of new tracks.
At first it seems like the same game, but after awhile of playing MGPRS2, it
really is much better than F1RS.
The logitech wheel comes with F1RS and Motorhead (a arcade racer).
By the way latest release date for MGPRS2 in America is May 20th.
David Mast

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by David Mast » Fri, 07 May 1999 04:00:00



>> MGPRS2 is the updated version of F1RS. It has better physics,

>But that doesn't mean that the physics are good.

Doesn't mean they are bad either.

Non sequiter.  You need an FIA license to have better graphics?  I guess no
1st person shooter or flight sim has nice graphics.  If the graphics have a
higher polygon count, greater resolution capacity and cleaner textures, can't
that count as better?  Anyway, I didn't think the graphics were all that much
better than the original.  They are both very good, albeit somewhat too
brightly colorful.

Oh, you never look at other views when in replay mode?  (okay, that's not an
MGPRS2 strength anyway).

Get off your anti-Ubisoft crusade.

Paul Jone

F1 Simulators - What a Joke.

by Paul Jone » Fri, 07 May 1999 04:00:00

Fran?ois,
You have got a real downer on UbiSoft. GPL has a better physics engine than MGP
- so? We all know that. Whether GP2 has a better physics engine than MGP is
certainly a debatable subject. However MGP is really not at all bad - certainly
it's no where near as bad as you say. You obviously have a personal reason to
hate UbiSoft which doesn't really affect how good the sim is for other people.
IMO There are two good modern F1 sims MGP and GP2 and one good historic one GPL
(which is streets beeter than both the modern ones).
GP2 has a good car "feel", but little fixes here and there allow you to drive
at absurd speeds and at times the cars appear to be on rails. The spins seem
very unrealistic at times. GP2 is not graphics accelerated which is a very
major negative in my book - it makes it so much harder to suspend one's
disbelief. It also has a very badly organised menu system that makes it very
hard to find where out where the various options are. GP2 has no multiplayer
options. GP2 is a very well supported sim and you can download lots of extra
graphics and even new tracks.
MGP doesn't "feel" quite as nice as GP2 but feels quite good. The graphics are
very good and you can download lots of extras to make up for the lack of an FIA
licence. The menu system has been criticised by many but I find it very easy to
negotiate my way around. The replays are computer selected highlights and are
very short. This is a major negative. MGP has good LAN multiplayer but the game
service is only average.
Before all real F1 races, I like to get to know the track so that I can
understand the race better. I choose MGP for this exercise.
IMO all other currently available F1 sims are worthless.
Cheers,
Paul


> > MGPRS2 is the updated version of F1RS. It has better physics,

> But that doesn't mean that the physics are good.

> > updated graphics

> That also doesn't mean that the graphics are accurate, or realistic.  More
> cartoon than before, but at least they made some improvement on the shadow
> side.  But how can you say better graphics when there's no FIA or
> advertising sponsor license ?

> > more driving views

> You should only need a***pit view in a racing sim.

> > a game service that lets you play on line

> That doesn't mean that the online racing is good.

> > and
> > a couple of new tracks.

> You gained 2, but you lost 1 track also.

> > At first it seems like the same game, but after awhile of playing MGPRS2,
> it
> > really is much better than F1RS.

> But that doesn't mean that they are good and accurate racing simulators.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- SimRacing Online http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
> -- May the Downforce be with you...

> "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."


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