rec.autos.simulators

by **Greg Cisk** » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

That is nothing... The Nascar Racing 1999 is advertised as a
Windows game complete with full multiplay capability. After
you install the game you get a message that says "oh shit
if you wanted to do multiplayer you must use the DOS
executable." Similarly this is not mentioned anywhere on
the box's system requirements. Papy is well known to do
false advertising MHO.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

> I called Sierra/Papyrus today and inquired about the "misleading
> advertising" on the N3 box. This is what I was told by Leah of customer

> are aware of the claim the box makes however the reason for this is the
box
> was made before the rights to the tracks were secured, we were expecting
to
> have all the tracks included but could not secure the rights to all of the
> tracks". She went on to say "we did not have time to change the box". I
told
> her I thought that was no excuse for having misleading advertising on the
> box and asked if they were making any effort to look after this matter to
> which she replied with a frank "no". I said thank you and gave her my name
> and address (and number in case she was ever in Toronto and wanted to go
for
> a drink) and said goodbye.

> Now THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Wow, am I not lucky to be able to buy stuff
off
> them? I'm going to send them a fruit basket and thank you card for
allowing
> me to be a customer as well as a blank cheque incase they need some fun
> money.
> On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
> missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming out
> in a few month's.
> Just thought you would all like to know.
> Al Stiff

by **Stif** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I called Sierra/Papyrus today and inquired about the "misleading
advertising" on the N3 box. This is what I was told by Leah of customer

are aware of the claim the box makes however the reason for this is the box
was made before the rights to the tracks were secured, we were expecting to
have all the tracks included but could not secure the rights to all of the
tracks". She went on to say "we did not have time to change the box". I told
her I thought that was no excuse for having misleading advertising on the
box and asked if they were making any effort to look after this matter to
which she replied with a frank "no". I said thank you and gave her my name
and address (and number in case she was ever in Toronto and wanted to go for
a drink) and said goodbye.

Now THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Wow, am I not lucky to be able to buy stuff off
them? I'm going to send them a fruit basket and thank you card for allowing
me to be a customer as well as a blank cheque incase they need some fun
money.
On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming out
in a few month's.
Just thought you would all like to know.
Al Stiff

by **Benjam** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

I don't understand all this... why is everyone griping about the claim
on the N3 box NOW... maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I don't
remember nearly as much "hey they said ALL tracks and it doesn't have
ALL of them..." as there's been in the last week....

~am i missing the point, here...?

>I called Sierra/Papyrus today and inquired about the "misleading
>advertising" on the N3 box. This is what I was told by Leah of customer

>are aware of the claim the box makes however the reason for this is the box
>was made before the rights to the tracks were secured, we were expecting to
>have all the tracks included but could not secure the rights to all of the
>tracks". She went on to say "we did not have time to change the box". I told
>her I thought that was no excuse for having misleading advertising on the
>box and asked if they were making any effort to look after this matter to
>which she replied with a frank "no". I said thank you and gave her my name
>and address (and number in case she was ever in Toronto and wanted to go for
>a drink) and said goodbye.

>Now THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Wow, am I not lucky to be able to buy stuff off
>them? I'm going to send them a fruit basket and thank you card for allowing
>me to be a customer as well as a blank cheque incase they need some fun
>money.
>On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
>missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming out
>in a few month's.
>Just thought you would all like to know.
>Al Stiff

by **Stif** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Well Benjamin, I did buy the game knowing full well what tracks were and
were not on it thanks to this NG. However not all consumers are part of
this NG and some unsuspecting guy is going to get hosed thinking certain
tracks are included when they are not.
We have laws here in Canada protecting consumers from corporations that make
false claims in ads or on packages as I'm sure they do in the USA (where
were they when I bought my space bike!).
The thing that I find appalling is that they know full well what is on the
box and are doing squat about fixing it. It is very apparent that they could
care less if they***off the customer or mislead them. Mistakes happen but
they seem content to just leave it like that.
I like the game and I have the demo CD and every other Papyrus sim (so I
have Pocono too). I could care less about the tracks not being in it because
I have them all and my game is complete (lots of great WC2000 cars from
around the web too!). Not everyone has the benefit of downloading it from a
web site or even knows about the demo CD.
This just makes me think that they need to give the head a shake and it also
scares me to think that they handle customer relations this way. It shows
what they think of the consumer that pays them.
Al Stiff (Blowing lots of smoke!)

> I don't understand all this... why is everyone griping about the claim
> on the N3 box NOW... maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I don't
> remember nearly as much "hey they said ALL tracks and it doesn't have
> ALL of them..." as there's been in the last week....

> ~am i missing the point, here...?

> >I called Sierra/Papyrus today and inquired about the "misleading
> >advertising" on the N3 box. This is what I was told by Leah of customer

"we
> >are aware of the claim the box makes however the reason for this is the
box
> >was made before the rights to the tracks were secured, we were expecting
to
> >have all the tracks included but could not secure the rights to all of
the
> >tracks". She went on to say "we did not have time to change the box". I
told
> >her I thought that was no excuse for having misleading advertising on the
> >box and asked if they were making any effort to look after this matter to
> >which she replied with a frank "no". I said thank you and gave her my
name
> >and address (and number in case she was ever in Toronto and wanted to go
for
> >a drink) and said goodbye.

> >Now THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Wow, am I not lucky to be able to buy stuff
off
> >them? I'm going to send them a fruit basket and thank you card for
allowing
> >me to be a customer as well as a blank cheque incase they need some fun
> >money.
> >On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
> >missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming
out
> >in a few month's.
> >Just thought you would all like to know.
> >Al Stiff

by **Doug Bishop Jackson Mi** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

>Subject: Papyrus/Sierra my Q&A period

>Date: 02/22/2000 8:32 PM Eastern Standard Time

>I called Sierra/Papyrus today and inquired about the "misleading
>advertising" on the N3 box. This is what I was told by Leah of customer

>are aware of the claim the box makes however the reason for this is the box
>was made before the rights to the tracks were secured, we were expecting to
>have all the tracks included but could not secure the rights to all of the
>tracks". She went on to say "we did not have time to change the box". I told
>her I thought that was no excuse for having misleading advertising on the
>box and asked if they were making any effort to look after this matter to
>which she replied with a frank "no". I said thank you and gave her my name
>and address (and number in case she was ever in Toronto and wanted to go for
>a drink) and said goodbye.

>Now THATS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Wow, am I not lucky to be able to buy stuff off
>them? I'm going to send them a fruit basket and thank you card for allowing
>me to be a customer as well as a blank cheque incase they need some fun
>money.
>On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
>missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming out
>in a few month's.
>Just thought you would all like to know.
>Al Stiff

OK AL & BTW you will only be able to get the two missing chapters by attenting
a booksellers convention in Hoboken or ordering from the Hoboken Bookseelers
Gift Shop (or their web site at www.skrewdya.com)

Or you could get someone to Xrox them for you so you can paste them into your
book....... :(

(Don't use NO***in E-mail)

You think in the storm we've found the eye of the calm.....Bill Mallonnee,
Vigilantes Of Love

by **Walk Walke** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Ever since time began ( it seems ), people have been bashing Papyrus, Sierra
for this that and the other. Claims are made drawing comparisons between
Simulations and Books, sims and phone service, sims and any other standard
product or service. I respectfully disagree

Software is a different beast. Deal with it. This is not malicious
advertising or some *** to keep us down. This is all a matter of
licensing, logistics and plain old hard cash. "Twas always thus and so shall
it ever be....

People moaned and whined at TEN for providing poor customer service, about
rankings not working all the itme, about this that and the other. End
result? It's gone an now people are whining about WON and how crappy they
find it. Now, I agree that TEN was not perfect, and that Sierra could/should
try harder to obtain important licenses, but you know what, life goes on.

We are all participants in an industry that is still in its adolescence. If
you don't like it, you are not required to participate. I know, I know,
Sierra/Papyrus owes you EVERYTHING because you've bought $400 worth of
software, $1,000's of dollars of hardwre, etc. That and $1.25 will get you a
cup a coffee these days, so get over it.

I am NOT saying "don't post it here". By all means, post away, let's
discuss, fight, argue, laugh, etc. But I AM saying, you need to re-evaluate
your expectations or else you're in for a world of hurt while you wait for
the "perfect" sim.

-/- Walk Walker

> On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
> missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming out
> in a few month's.

by **Stif** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Hey Walk I got some land for sale in FLA are you interested?
Let me know, I can sell it to you REAL cheap
Al Stiff

> Ever since time began ( it seems ), people have been bashing Papyrus,
Sierra
> for this that and the other. Claims are made drawing comparisons between
> Simulations and Books, sims and phone service, sims and any other standard
> product or service. I respectfully disagree

> Software is a different beast. Deal with it. This is not malicious
> advertising or some *** to keep us down. This is all a matter of
> licensing, logistics and plain old hard cash. "Twas always thus and so
shall
> it ever be....

> People moaned and whined at TEN for providing poor customer service, about
> rankings not working all the itme, about this that and the other. End
> result? It's gone an now people are whining about WON and how crappy they
> find it. Now, I agree that TEN was not perfect, and that Sierra
could/should
> try harder to obtain important licenses, but you know what, life goes on.

> We are all participants in an industry that is still in its adolescence.
If
> you don't like it, you are not required to participate. I know, I know,
> Sierra/Papyrus owes you EVERYTHING because you've bought $400 worth of
> software, $1,000's of dollars of hardwre, etc. That and $1.25 will get you
a
> cup a coffee these days, so get over it.

> I am NOT saying "don't post it here". By all means, post away, let's
> discuss, fight, argue, laugh, etc. But I AM saying, you need to
re-evaluate
> your expectations or else you're in for a world of hurt while you wait for
> the "perfect" sim.

> -/- Walk Walker

> > On another note I bought this book today but a 2 of the 30 chapters were
> > missing. Oh well I guess I will get it in the books add-on pack coming
out
> > in a few month's.

by **Jeff Vince** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

>Well Benjamin, I did buy the game knowing full well what tracks were and
>were not on it thanks to this NG. However not all consumers are part of
>this NG and some unsuspecting guy is going to get hosed thinking certain
>tracks are included when they are not.
>We have laws here in Canada protecting consumers from corporations that make
>false claims in ads or on packages as I'm sure they do in the USA (where
>were they when I bought my space bike!).

Stiff, does the Sierra "30 day money back" gaurantee apply in
Canada?

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Scott B. Huste** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Walk is right, but *** theorists don't like to hear that.

Scott
PA-Scott
PowerSims.com

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 4395450

by **Stif** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Yes it is a big *** (as I motion my Bhen Wha balls in my hand)! The
whole lot of you are against me! Your all a bunch of disrespectful officers!
Your all against me as well as the rest of the world (I'm very delusional
right now).
Now I know we have a quart of strawberries missing so I have this bucket of
sand and it will represent the strawberries...........
Al (Cpt. Queeg) Stiff "I'm a very hurt person and I need help, please send
me a fruit basket and get well soon card"

by **Flatfoo** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

> <snipped>

> Software is a different beast. Deal with it. This is not malicious
> advertising or some *** to keep us down. This is all a matter of
> licensing, logistics and plain old hard cash. "Twas always thus and so shall
> it ever be....

Wrong. Software is no different than any other consumer product when it comes to
issues of false advertising and poor customer service.

What you discribe is totalitarian corporate state where consumers have no rights
and no say in the conduct of business. While that seems functionally true much
of the time, the broader reality is we live in an economic democrocy called free
enterprise where business suceeds by satisfying the customer.. Consumers not
only vote with their dollars, but have the right to be protected from fraud.

Ah, the common arguement against democracy and for dictatorship.

Marty

by **ymenar** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Like I said the day the Daytona demo rumors started...

I thought the r.a.s. citizens had matured and learned to deal with the
business side of the *** industry, but there is always some people who
don't understand, don't have the knowledge or are just simple-minded and
think that the situation is in any way the fault of Papyrus.

Still, we all know it's Brian's fault ;-D

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Stif** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

*PLONK*

> > Walk is right, but *** theorists don't like to hear that.

> Like I said the day the Daytona demo rumors started...

> I thought the r.a.s. citizens had matured and learned to deal with the
> business side of the *** industry, but there is always some people who
> don't understand, don't have the knowledge or are just simple-minded and
> think that the situation is in any way the fault of Papyrus.

> Still, we all know it's Brian's fault ;-D

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- People think it must be fun to be a super ***, but they don't
realise
> how hard it is to be just a reglar ***.

by **Don Hancock (** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Now THAT's funny!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

Gunner

by **David Kar** » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

"WHANK"