rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:06:59

Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

-Larry

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:14:17

Place a bet on that ?<G>

John

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:15:23

But yes, congrats Zug ! Fun race guys, thanks.

John

by **Brian Oste** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:16:03

On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:14:17 -0600, "John Pancoast"

>> Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

>> -Larry

> Place a bet on that ?<G>

>John

He's right, I really was saving the tires the entire race. I know I
got the lead when a lap car got in the mix, but I kept my RF within
8-10 degrees from the RR almost the whole race. I actually practiced
long runs off-line for this race and I found that you could run 10-15
fast laps with this setup but then the car pushed so bad lap times
really dropped after the RF heated up. By driving in deep drifting up
in the middle and then getting on the throttle a little later you
could run some very fast laps even with 30 or more laps on the tires.

Brian Oster

by **John Pancoas** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:23:00

> On Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:14:17 -0600, "John Pancoast"

> >> Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> >> -Larry

> > Place a bet on that ?<G>

> >John

> He's right, I really was saving the tires the entire race. I know I
> got the lead when a lap car got in the mix, but I kept my RF within
> 8-10 degrees from the RR almost the whole race. I actually practiced
> long runs off-line for this race and I found that you could run 10-15
> fast laps with this setup but then the car pushed so bad lap times
> really dropped after the RF heated up. By driving in deep drifting up
> in the middle and then getting on the throttle a little later you
> could run some very fast laps even with 30 or more laps on the tires.

> Brian Oster

That's true, but how do you know I wasn't doing the same thing ? <G>

John

by **Brian Oste** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:25:53

Thanks Larry, just testing out the theory "drive slower to go
faster". Cautions seemed to be a lot better this week. A few at the
begining, but a good long run at the end. Everyone I was running with
ran very clean.

Brian Oster

>Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

>-Larry

by **David G Fishe** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:18:16

Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any accidents.
It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept going
back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5 battle.

Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR. Keep
it up. :-)

David G Fisher

by **Larr** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:25:28

Thanks, David :)

I try!

-Larry

> Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any
accidents.
> It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept going
> back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5 battle.

> Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR.
Keep
> it up. :-)

> David G Fisher

> > Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> > -Larry

by **Larr** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:42:08

David,

I'd like to take a crack at this freeze-up problem. Since I do this for a
living, I might be able to catch something that has been missed.

I will need some pretty extensive info though, mainly a very thorough report
on your system. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to have something like complete
system report from Sandra or other system catalogging utility.

At a minimum, I'd like to have:

1. System Board Mfr/Model, BIOS Revision and, if you know it, revision
number of the board itself.
2. Amount of RAM, and Manufacturer. Include their part number if you have
it.
3. Hard Drive manufacturer, size, model and firmware version.
4. Sound Card MFR.
5. NIC Card MFR.
6. Graphics Card MFR, and BIOS rev if you have it.
7. Info on any other cards or internal devices.
8. Make, Model and Firmware revision of any other drives installed.
9. Power Supply Size, MFR and Model Number.
10. Processor, and whether it is a OEM or Retail.
11. Keyboard and Mouse MFR/Model.
12. Any other periperals, printers included, attached.

For PCI Cards, what slot they are in, counting AWAY from the AGP Slot.

13. Driver revision numbers for all devices.
14. Operating System and Version.
15. Any system 'modifying' utilities installed, including graphics card
modifyers.
16. The AGP Apeture Setting in your BIOS (one of my likely suspects).

Internet connection type and any routers, hubs, cable modems, etc... in use.

Anything else you can think of that I might have missed.

I know this is a lot, but maybe we can reel in this thing eventually.

Don't underestimate the ability of the AGP Aperture Setting to completely
hose a system. On AMD systems especially, this thing can be tricky to set
right, and is usually the last thing you can think of.

For example, I've been reporting freezes in the OGL version of NR2002 since
the first patch came out. I spent an ENTIRE weekend installing Windows
fresh several times, reinstalling NR2002, etc... It was always fine until I
applied the first or second patch, and then it would crash NR2002 within a
few laps every time in OGL mode.

My AGP Aperture setting has been at 128 for pretty much forever. Today, I
changed it to 64 and tested. I haven't seen a crash in NR2002 since
(though I still run in D3D until someone releases a Refresh Rate fix that
really works reliably, like NVRefFix used to).

This made possible sense after I discovered it. The original NR2002 did not
incorporate Texture Compression. The first and second patches DO. Now, I
can't definitely tie that to the AGP Aperture Setting, but if you think
about it it's entirely possible that the new routines simply don't work well
with an AGP Aperture Setting of 128 on MY computer.

I go now :)

-Larry

> Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any
accidents.
> It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept going
> back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5 battle.

> Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR.
Keep
> it up. :-)

> David G Fisher

> > Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> > -Larry

by **Larr** » Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:44:52

To clarify, the original version of NR2002 did not incorporate Texture
Compression for OpenGL. It had it from the start for D3D. OpenGL Texture
Compression was added to NR2002 starting with the first patch.

-Larry

> David,

> I'd like to take a crack at this freeze-up problem. Since I do this for a
> living, I might be able to catch something that has been missed.

> I will need some pretty extensive info though, mainly a very thorough
report
> on your system. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to have something like
complete
> system report from Sandra or other system catalogging utility.

> At a minimum, I'd like to have:

> 1. System Board Mfr/Model, BIOS Revision and, if you know it, revision
> number of the board itself.
> 2. Amount of RAM, and Manufacturer. Include their part number if you
have
> it.
> 3. Hard Drive manufacturer, size, model and firmware version.
> 4. Sound Card MFR.
> 5. NIC Card MFR.
> 6. Graphics Card MFR, and BIOS rev if you have it.
> 7. Info on any other cards or internal devices.
> 8. Make, Model and Firmware revision of any other drives installed.
> 9. Power Supply Size, MFR and Model Number.
> 10. Processor, and whether it is a OEM or Retail.
> 11. Keyboard and Mouse MFR/Model.
> 12. Any other periperals, printers included, attached.

> For PCI Cards, what slot they are in, counting AWAY from the AGP Slot.

> 13. Driver revision numbers for all devices.
> 14. Operating System and Version.
> 15. Any system 'modifying' utilities installed, including graphics card
> modifyers.
> 16. The AGP Apeture Setting in your BIOS (one of my likely suspects).

> Internet connection type and any routers, hubs, cable modems, etc... in
use.

> Anything else you can think of that I might have missed.

> I know this is a lot, but maybe we can reel in this thing eventually.

> Don't underestimate the ability of the AGP Aperture Setting to completely
> hose a system. On AMD systems especially, this thing can be tricky to set
> right, and is usually the last thing you can think of.

> For example, I've been reporting freezes in the OGL version of NR2002
since
> the first patch came out. I spent an ENTIRE weekend installing Windows
> fresh several times, reinstalling NR2002, etc... It was always fine until
I
> applied the first or second patch, and then it would crash NR2002 within a
> few laps every time in OGL mode.

> My AGP Aperture setting has been at 128 for pretty much forever. Today, I
> changed it to 64 and tested. I haven't seen a crash in NR2002 since
> (though I still run in D3D until someone releases a Refresh Rate fix that
> really works reliably, like NVRefFix used to).

> This made possible sense after I discovered it. The original NR2002 did
not
> incorporate Texture Compression. The first and second patches DO. Now, I
> can't definitely tie that to the AGP Aperture Setting, but if you think
> about it it's entirely possible that the new routines simply don't work
well
> with an AGP Aperture Setting of 128 on MY computer.

> I go now :)

> -Larry

> > Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any
> accidents.
> > It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept
going
> > back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5 battle.

> > Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR.
> Keep
> > it up. :-)

> > David G Fisher

> > > Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> > > -Larry

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:10:27

Thanks for the offer Larry.

I think I've narrowed down the cause of the screen freezes a bit. After I
quit the race Saturday, I watched it live on the replay screen and noticed
that I had a couple of freezes even then. About 3 seconds in length, just
like when I'm racing. I've done a few offline races since, in addition to
the one I did for practice on Friday night and have had no freezes. It looks
like this may be related to my internet connection. What's very strange is
that I DEFINITELY used to get freezes offline against the AI as well.

Strange, huh? Any ideas now as to what could be causing the 3 second
freezes? As I've said before, the screen freezes, but the action continues.
The car keeps moving, and I hear live sound. I no longer think it has
anything to do with drivers (tried many both in openGL and D3D), my sound
card, ram or streaming sound.

If you still think you need the info below, I'll try and get as much of it
as possible.

I have a cable modem (3Com U.S. Robotics Cable Modem CMX). My download speed
is blazing fast. My pings are always excellent, and my connection quality is
usually at 100 to most servers, including Eldred's. BTW, the freezes happen
no matter what server I join. No one ever complains that my car is
disappearing during a race either.

All background programs are shut down when racing online. OS is XP home.

These freezes don't happen with any other game online.

Dave

> David,

> I'd like to take a crack at this freeze-up problem. Since I do this for a
> living, I might be able to catch something that has been missed.

> I will need some pretty extensive info though, mainly a very thorough
report
> on your system. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to have something like
complete
> system report from Sandra or other system catalogging utility.

> At a minimum, I'd like to have:

> 1. System Board Mfr/Model, BIOS Revision and, if you know it, revision
> number of the board itself.
> 2. Amount of RAM, and Manufacturer. Include their part number if you
have
> it.
> 3. Hard Drive manufacturer, size, model and firmware version.
> 4. Sound Card MFR.
> 5. NIC Card MFR.
> 6. Graphics Card MFR, and BIOS rev if you have it.
> 7. Info on any other cards or internal devices.
> 8. Make, Model and Firmware revision of any other drives installed.
> 9. Power Supply Size, MFR and Model Number.
> 10. Processor, and whether it is a OEM or Retail.
> 11. Keyboard and Mouse MFR/Model.
> 12. Any other periperals, printers included, attached.

> For PCI Cards, what slot they are in, counting AWAY from the AGP Slot.

> 13. Driver revision numbers for all devices.
> 14. Operating System and Version.
> 15. Any system 'modifying' utilities installed, including graphics card
> modifyers.
> 16. The AGP Apeture Setting in your BIOS (one of my likely suspects).

> Internet connection type and any routers, hubs, cable modems, etc... in
use.

> Anything else you can think of that I might have missed.

> I know this is a lot, but maybe we can reel in this thing eventually.

> Don't underestimate the ability of the AGP Aperture Setting to completely
> hose a system. On AMD systems especially, this thing can be tricky to set
> right, and is usually the last thing you can think of.

> For example, I've been reporting freezes in the OGL version of NR2002
since
> the first patch came out. I spent an ENTIRE weekend installing Windows
> fresh several times, reinstalling NR2002, etc... It was always fine until
I
> applied the first or second patch, and then it would crash NR2002 within a
> few laps every time in OGL mode.

> My AGP Aperture setting has been at 128 for pretty much forever. Today, I
> changed it to 64 and tested. I haven't seen a crash in NR2002 since
> (though I still run in D3D until someone releases a Refresh Rate fix that
> really works reliably, like NVRefFix used to).

> This made possible sense after I discovered it. The original NR2002 did
not
> incorporate Texture Compression. The first and second patches DO. Now, I
> can't definitely tie that to the AGP Aperture Setting, but if you think
> about it it's entirely possible that the new routines simply don't work
well
> with an AGP Aperture Setting of 128 on MY computer.

> I go now :)

> -Larry

> > Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any
> accidents.
> > It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept
going
> > back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5 battle.

> > Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR.
> Keep
> > it up. :-)

> > David G Fisher

> > > Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> > > -Larry

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:41:56

You might want to make sure the N2002 task watchdog is disabled. Under XP, I
wouldn't count out resource probs like IRQ or PCI bus contention either. And
of course, when you say no background progs are running, under XP that
doesn't mean a lot. There's a lot of services running you probably aren't
even aware of. Even 'calling home' stuff. Have you checked into that
diligently?

Achim

> Thanks for the offer Larry.

> I think I've narrowed down the cause of the screen freezes a bit. After I
> quit the race Saturday, I watched it live on the replay screen and noticed
> that I had a couple of freezes even then. About 3 seconds in length, just
> like when I'm racing. I've done a few offline races since, in addition to
> the one I did for practice on Friday night and have had no freezes. It
looks
> like this may be related to my internet connection. What's very strange is
> that I DEFINITELY used to get freezes offline against the AI as well.

> Strange, huh? Any ideas now as to what could be causing the 3 second
> freezes? As I've said before, the screen freezes, but the action
continues.
> The car keeps moving, and I hear live sound. I no longer think it has
> anything to do with drivers (tried many both in openGL and D3D), my sound
> card, ram or streaming sound.

> If you still think you need the info below, I'll try and get as much of it
> as possible.

> I have a cable modem (3Com U.S. Robotics Cable Modem CMX). My download
speed
> is blazing fast. My pings are always excellent, and my connection quality
is
> usually at 100 to most servers, including Eldred's. BTW, the freezes
happen
> no matter what server I join. No one ever complains that my car is
> disappearing during a race either.

> All background programs are shut down when racing online. OS is XP home.

> These freezes don't happen with any other game online.

> Dave

> > David,

> > I'd like to take a crack at this freeze-up problem. Since I do this for
a
> > living, I might be able to catch something that has been missed.

> > I will need some pretty extensive info though, mainly a very thorough
> report
> > on your system. In fact, it wouldn't hurt to have something like
> complete
> > system report from Sandra or other system catalogging utility.

> > At a minimum, I'd like to have:

> > 1. System Board Mfr/Model, BIOS Revision and, if you know it, revision
> > number of the board itself.
> > 2. Amount of RAM, and Manufacturer. Include their part number if you
> have
> > it.
> > 3. Hard Drive manufacturer, size, model and firmware version.
> > 4. Sound Card MFR.
> > 5. NIC Card MFR.
> > 6. Graphics Card MFR, and BIOS rev if you have it.
> > 7. Info on any other cards or internal devices.
> > 8. Make, Model and Firmware revision of any other drives installed.
> > 9. Power Supply Size, MFR and Model Number.
> > 10. Processor, and whether it is a OEM or Retail.
> > 11. Keyboard and Mouse MFR/Model.
> > 12. Any other periperals, printers included, attached.

> > For PCI Cards, what slot they are in, counting AWAY from the AGP Slot.

> > 13. Driver revision numbers for all devices.
> > 14. Operating System and Version.
> > 15. Any system 'modifying' utilities installed, including graphics card
> > modifyers.
> > 16. The AGP Apeture Setting in your BIOS (one of my likely suspects).

> > Internet connection type and any routers, hubs, cable modems, etc... in
> use.

> > Anything else you can think of that I might have missed.

> > I know this is a lot, but maybe we can reel in this thing eventually.

> > Don't underestimate the ability of the AGP Aperture Setting to
completely
> > hose a system. On AMD systems especially, this thing can be tricky to
set
> > right, and is usually the last thing you can think of.

> > For example, I've been reporting freezes in the OGL version of NR2002
> since
> > the first patch came out. I spent an ENTIRE weekend installing Windows
> > fresh several times, reinstalling NR2002, etc... It was always fine
until
> I
> > applied the first or second patch, and then it would crash NR2002 within
a
> > few laps every time in OGL mode.

> > My AGP Aperture setting has been at 128 for pretty much forever. Today,
I
> > changed it to 64 and tested. I haven't seen a crash in NR2002 since
> > (though I still run in D3D until someone releases a Refresh Rate fix
that
> > really works reliably, like NVRefFix used to).

> > This made possible sense after I discovered it. The original NR2002 did
> not
> > incorporate Texture Compression. The first and second patches DO. Now,
I
> > can't definitely tie that to the AGP Aperture Setting, but if you think
> > about it it's entirely possible that the new routines simply don't work
> well
> > with an AGP Aperture Setting of 128 on MY computer.

> > I go now :)

> > -Larry

> > > Because of my freezes, I dropped out early so as not to cause any
> > accidents.
> > > It was a great race to watch though. Good driving all around. I kept
> going
> > > back and forth from the contest for 1 and 2, and the 3,4, and 5
battle.

> > > Larry, I'd say you've quickly become one of the top drivers in RASCAR.
> > Keep
> > > it up. :-)

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > Nice job saving the tires. That's what won that race, for sure :)

> > > > -Larry

by **Larr** » Wed, 19 Jun 2002 05:54:26

Well, at this point you're going to need to do some extensive ping plots to
determine if you have an Internet Connection problem as you suspect. It may
be that your Cable Company has a router that gets clogged up from time to
time, resulting in periods of seriously increased latency, or even stopped
thru-put. You would likely never notice this web browsing.

I wish you luck. Cable Companies generally suck when you're trying to get
something like this resolved :(