rec.autos.simulators

by **Robert Huggi** » Tue, 02 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Sorry for my "more questions than answers" report, but here goes:

For the first time, I played the SEGA Daytona game this weekend.
The Putt-Putt in Raleigh, NC has four stations setup so it is
possible for four human cars to be racing at the same time.
It is a four token game, and tokens are 100 for $20.
80 cents a game per person. It was the only thing to do when
we arrived at the go-cart track just in time for the rain to
start.

The game offers three tracks
- beginner (8 laps at Daytona?)
- intermediate (4 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?)
- expert (2 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?)

I guess the 8 lap race is supposed to be like the real Daytona???
But with trees overhanging the racetrack???? No way!!!
It looked sort-of like Taladega, except the tough corner at Daytona
was turn two. (The turn at the end of the long straighaway.)
The graphics looked "atari" like. Unrealistic.
Sure, the cars could flip upside down, but it was unrealistic.
I know, this is an arcade game and NASCAR is a simulation.
The AI was not as good as NASCAR racing by Papyrus.
There were pits, but why would you ever pit in an eight lap race?
The cars seemed to fix themselves just fine without pitting?
Papyrus gets even more credit and appreciation from me now that I have
seen this arcade game.

Sega calls this game Daytona. Why? One of the three tracks that you
can race using this arcade machine is a tri-oval like Daytona? But
the other two are definately road courses. And this is what is
keeping Papyrus from adding the Daytona track to their NASCAR game?
Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through
this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be
a hero and make some phone calls! Surely someone having one track in
a game that is a simulation of the entire NASCAR schedule is different
enough from an arcade game named DAYTONA to allow a clever lawyer to
make a business arrangement. If this has already been tried, please
let the internet community understand the roadblocks so we can work on
them?

If Jed at "The Pits" or anyone else can change Taladega enough to look
like Daytona, is it true that turn 2 is the "tough" turn at Daytona as
opposed to turn 3 at Taladega? Jed, it this one of the things you are
already capable of doing?

Happy racing!
Daytonaless in Raleigh

by **RustyI** » Wed, 03 Apr 1996 04:00:00

(Robert Huggins) writes:
>Sorry for my "more questions than answers" report, but here goes:

>For the first time, I played the SEGA Daytona game this weekend.
>The Putt-Putt in Raleigh, NC has four stations setup so it is
>possible for four human cars to be racing at the same time.
>It is a four token game, and tokens are 100 for $20.
>80 cents a game per person. It was the only thing to do when
>we arrived at the go-cart track just in time for the rain to
>start.

>The game offers three tracks
> - beginner (8 laps at Daytona?)
> - intermediate (4 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?)
> - expert (2 laps on a road course, where? real or fictional?)

>I guess the 8 lap race is supposed to be like the real Daytona???
>But with trees overhanging the racetrack???? No way!!!
>It looked sort-of like Taladega, except the tough corner at Daytona
>was turn two. (The turn at the end of the long straighaway.)
>The graphics looked "atari" like. Unrealistic.
>Sure, the cars could flip upside down, but it was unrealistic.
>I know, this is an arcade game and NASCAR is a simulation.
>The AI was not as good as NASCAR racing by Papyrus.
>There were pits, but why would you ever pit in an eight lap race?
>The cars seemed to fix themselves just fine without pitting?
>Papyrus gets even more credit and appreciation from me now that I have
>seen this arcade game.

>Sega calls this game Daytona. Why? One of the three tracks that you
>can race using this arcade machine is a tri-oval like Daytona? But
>the other two are definately road courses. And this is what is
>keeping Papyrus from adding the Daytona track to their NASCAR game?
>Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through
>this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be
>a hero and make some phone calls! Surely someone having one track in
>a game that is a simulation of the entire NASCAR schedule is different
>enough from an arcade game named DAYTONA to allow a clever lawyer to
>make a business arrangement. If this has already been tried, please
>let the internet community understand the roadblocks so we can work on
>them?

>If Jed at "The Pits" or anyone else can change Taladega enough to look
>like Daytona, is it true that turn 2 is the "tough" turn at Daytona as
>opposed to turn 3 at Taladega? Jed, it this one of the things you are
>already capable of doing?

>Happy racing!
>Daytonaless in Raleigh

i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when
the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or
wers

by **RickGent** » Wed, 03 Apr 1996 04:00:00

We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it
doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't
sublicense it to us. Case closed.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

by **Robert Huggi** » Thu, 04 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Case closed.

That would be bad news for all of us.

I sent them e-mail, start your stopwatch, let's check their pulse.
Can you send me any names, phone numbers or e-mail addresses of the
contacts that might already be familiar with this question?

Best wishes!
Robert Huggins

by **Justin VonHage** » Thu, 04 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> (Robert Huggins) writes:

> >Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through
> >this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be
> >a hero and make some phone calls!

> We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it
> doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't
> sublicense it to us. Case closed.

> Rick Genter
> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
> Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

daytona....Can't you guys just release the exact track but call it
something else. There are ways around licensing. Haven't you ever
played any sports games. Tecno Bowl football for nintendo couldn't use
Jim Kelly's name, so they just called him QB Bills. Cannot you release
a track called Florida or something. It could be a fictional track that
just happens to have the exact same specs as the actual Daytona
track....
Same thing with Indy....

Just a thought.

Justin
--
***********************************************
Justin VonHagen, Malvern PA USA

http://www.csc.vill.edu/~vonhagen
Is that enough? I could give more.
***********************************************

by **Mark McCue** » Thu, 04 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it
> doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't
> sublicense it to us. Case closed.

I'm venting Rick so bear with. I write this in hopes that one of the
morons that works at Sega will print this out and take it into the oval
office at that behemoth. They can sit there and laugh until their sales
start going down.

Daytona USA is a _stupid_game_, created by people who could give less
than an act of *** *** about racing. I am infuriated that a
legend in racing could be turned into a toy for children.
I have stated this before and I will say it again;

I vehemently refuse to purchase ANY product created or marketed
by Sega. I will advise anyone who asks me my opinion for purchases of
*** equipment NOT to buy Sega. I will not soon forget that Sega has
forced it's way into _my_life and precluded me from a complete racing
experience for no other reason than to further their own capital gains at
the cost of a company who truly endeavors to bring racing fans a geniune
and realistic experience in the area of virtual driving.
If Sega thinks they are going to lure myself, or any other True
Racing Fan away from the Papyrus simulators simply by buying and
cloistering Daytona away from any other developer, THEY ARE DEAD WRONG!
Sega: Take your money-flashing power-play and shove it. You've
made yourself an enemy.
I also have to express my dissappointment with ISC for ignoring
their paying customers in order to be bought off by these thugs.

Enough.
I'm off to turn some laps.
Don't bother to bootleg Daytona either, anyone, I don't want to race
there anymore.

Later
MMc

It's a great day for big business, isn't it?

> Rick Genter
> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
> Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

by **Mark McCue** » Thu, 04 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Now I don't feel so bad about buying a P150, 32 meg of ram and a 20"
monitor for NASCAR...and at least I have something to show for the money
I spent!

If Sega says it's real, you'd better believe it or they'll buy you and
brainwash you.

If Mother Sega says that trees will overhang the track at Daytona, ISC
will fire all the gardeners.

Who needs realism? All you want to do when you race is crash and get
chocolate all over your face. So thinks Sega

Doesn't matter. All racers want to do is crash. So thinks Sega.

Pit?! Naw! Too much thought involved. So thinks...

Because it's an Icon, a crown jewel. racing's jewel, Sega's crown.

Nope. _Power_ is. Power gained from _your_ money. Ain't that scary?

Actually, and you can tell me to drop dead if you wanna, but I think
Papyrus is a hero for just putting up with all this whining and crying,
much of which I have done myself.
Don't you think they'd put that track in the sim in a heartbeat if it was
at all feasible. Would you rather have Papy pull a gray area trick, get
sued by Sega, end up getting put out of business by Sega, and then we
have nothing left but Sega 'simulators'? I'd rather play Stunts... or
Vette for that matter.

Yeah yeah, I know, Sierra owns 'em now, but prudent business practices
still prevail. You think Sierra is gonna declare ***WWIII over a
race-track? Yeah I know, that'd make you happy and me too, but get real.

Best thing you can do is stop chuckin' 80 cents in that machine!

Man, I'm pissed. 8{

by **Karl Rau** » Fri, 05 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>> (Robert Huggins) writes:

>> >Please tell me that some smart businessman at Papyrus can cut through
>> >this legal tangle and work out a deal. Someone at Papyrus: please be
>> >a hero and make some phone calls!

>> We can call (and have called) until we are blue in the face, but it
>> doesn't matter. Sega has an *exclusive* license to Daytona, and they won't
>> sublicense it to us. Case closed.

>> Rick Genter
>> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
>> Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

>daytona....Can't you guys just release the exact track but call it
>something else. There are ways around licensing. Haven't you ever
>played any sports games. Tecno Bowl football for nintendo couldn't use
>Jim Kelly's name, so they just called him QB Bills. Cannot you release
>a track called Florida or something. It could be a fictional track that
>just happens to have the exact same specs as the actual Daytona
>track....
>Same thing with Indy....
>Just a thought.
>Justin

I think Justin is on to something here. I would be happy with a track
called Florida or something like that. A Windy 500 <bg> track would
be kinda nice also, especially in glorious SVGA.

Karl

by **John Simmo** » Fri, 05 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>(Robert Huggins) writes:

>>--- legible message omitted for brevity----

>i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when
>the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or
>wers

Where the *** did you learn to spell? And how about some punctuation!?
Jeeze, am I tired of this.

/=================================================\
| John Simmons (Redneck Techno-Biker) |

| http://www.racesimcentral.net/|
\=================================================/

by **Eldred Picke** » Fri, 05 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: DAYTONA, SEGA, PAPYRUS, NASCAR, TURN2/3
>Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 18:47:07 -0800

[snip]

I feel the same way, except most of the people I try to warn away from Sega
have children. They want a CHEAP TOY to occupy the brats with...

You and a few hundred other people...sadly, I don't think we're a large enough
influence.

Ok, what's ISC?

Eldred

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
Eldred Pickett

by **Eldred Picke** » Sat, 06 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: DAYTONA, SEGA, PAPYRUS, NASCAR, TURN2/3
>Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 14:10:58 GMT

>>(Robert Huggins) writes:

>>>--- legible message omitted for brevity----

>>i agree but it is an asume sim. datona usa would be a hilght if and when
>>the use it on computers but how did distruction derby turn out better or
>>wers
>Where the *** did you learn to spell? And how about some punctuation!?
>Jeeze, am I tired of this.

It's our public education system at work...<g>

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
Eldred Pickett

by **michae** » Sat, 06 Apr 1996 04:00:00

if youre tired of this, stop subscribing to this newsgroup...thats why this
group is here....for people to post questions, however simple they may be.

by **Robert Huggi** » Sat, 06 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>>Case closed.
>That would be bad news for all of us.

>I sent them e-mail, start your stopwatch, let's check their pulse.
>Can you send me any names, phone numbers or e-mail addresses of the
>contacts that might already be familiar with this question?
>Best wishes!
>Robert Huggins

Hey Rick Genter. Are you there? Checking your pulse now.

Best wishes!
Robert Huggins

by **Eric G Park** » Sat, 06 Apr 1996 04:00:00

: I feel the same way, except most of the people I try to warn away from Sega
: have children. They want a CHEAP TOY to occupy the brats with...

: > If Sega thinks they are going to lure myself, or any other True
: >Racing Fan away from the Papyrus simulators simply by buying and
: >cloistering Daytona away from any other developer, THEY ARE DEAD WRONG!
: > Sega: Take your money-flashing power-play and shove it. You've
: >made yourself an enemy.

There is only one small thing that no one has mentined yet. Sega
is the only company to produce a Virtual style Rally racing game.
Considering that we in the United States (those of us who live here) are
deprived of Rallying on any normal scale (like every other country in the
world has on TV), we (those of us who are SCCA Pro-Rallyists) have to put
up with Nascar etc all the time. Sega Rally is a great break back into
the highest form of high-performance endurance racing around. Now if
only the games were more like a real rally and not a RallyCross (In real
rallys for those of you that don't know, DON'T repeat the same section of
a course at all, ever.)

That's my $0.02 worth.

N.E. Div SCCA Solo I/Hillclimb Racer - 4 Top-5 finishes in the 1995 Season
Looking for Crew Members and Alternate Co-Drivers for '97 Season - Email Us!

by **RickGent** » Sun, 07 Apr 1996 04:00:00

I'm here. I have no e-mail addresses or contacts for Sega. Sorry.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Papyrus Design Group, Inc.