rec.autos.simulators

> My system - PII-333 (oc 5x75=375)
> VOODOO3 2000 16MB - PCI - Standard 144mhz clock rate.
> ABIT LX6 MB
> 128MB
> AWE64
> 19" Optiquest V95 monitor.
> TSW steering wheel
> FLCS/TQS/RCS HOTAS

> ------------------------------

> Sections:

> -WHYS AND WHEREFORES
> -INSTALLATION (My method)
> -PERFORMANCE - FLYING/RACING SIMS
> -BOTTOM LINE

> ------------------------------

> * WHYS and WHEREFORES:

> I formerly had the same system with a Voodoo2-8MB and
> a Matrox Millenium 2.

> Some have asked why I would not have gotten the V3-3000 instead.
> At the time I bought the V3-2000, I had planned for it to be
> a stop-gap measure until the REAL bad boy CPU's etc. are released
> late this year, at which time I would give my system to my wife
> and build a new one. Since I have seen the V3 performance,
> she may not be getting my system for a while.. :)

> Also, I didn't need/want the games bundle or the TV out that
> comes with the V3-3000. The only thing that the V3-3000 could
> offer me was faster memory, which enables V3-3000 to use a higher
> clock rate. 175mhz vs 144mhz. Also the V3-3000 has a larger heat
> sink than the V3-2000 and is available ONLY in an AGP version.

> One other thing. I had heard that the V3-2000 was easily
> overclockable to 166mhz with no additional cooling, etc. I verified
> that tonight when I set the clock rate to 166 and played hours of
> different sims and games with no problem. I could detect a very
> small difference at the 166mhz rate and so I set the speed back
> to normal. Those with faster systems, ie: 300a's at 450, etc.,
> may get a bigger improvement.

> Also, I am not ready for the AGP thing and I couldn't justify the
> price for a small performance difference, soooo, I got the V3-2000.

> --------------------------

> * INSTALLATION:

> As with anything new, I haunted the V3 newsgroup
> 3dfx.products.voodoo3 , for a couple of days looking for info about
> installation, performance, etc. While some people had good luck
> just replacing their V2 with V3 and rebooting, I preferred
> a more conservative approach.

> I did the following:

> NOTE - As always your mileage may vary. If you do this stuff,
> it is your responsibility to make it work, not mine..hehe.

> 1) I set my desktop to 640x480 16 color. Yes, 16 COLOR.

> 2) I uninstalled the Matrox and Voodoo 2 from Device Manager.

> 3) When asked to reboot, I said NO!

> 4) From REGEDIT I deleted -all- references to Matrox and 3dfx/voodoo.

> 5) In C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM, I deleted GLIDE*.* and 3DFX*.*
>     In C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM, I deleted MGA*.*  (Matrox stuff)
>    In C:\WINDOWS\INF I deleted any trace of MATROX, 3DFX, MGA and VOOODOO.

> 6) I did a FIND and deleted all instances of GLIDE*.* on my
> system.

> 7) I powered down.

> 8) I removed my Matrox and Voodoo2 cards and installed my V3-2000 ( PCI ).

> 9) I powered up and allowed plug and play to find the card.

> 10) From the V3 install CD I installed the utilities and the drivers
> for the V3. I also installed DX6.1 from the CD, since several
> files that I deleted in the earlier steps were DX files.

> I used the V3 install CD to scan my hard drive for any OpenGL games
> and it updated the OpenGL drivers automagically.

> At this point I was officially using my Voodoo3!!

> ----------------------------

> * PERFORMANCE

> First a word on the 2D performance. I had a Matrox Millenium II prior
> to the V3. The Millenium II isn't a shabby 2D card. While I haven't
> tested the 2D performance of the V3, my 1280x1024/16 bit/85mhz refresh
> desktop looks the same as it did before. Sharp and clear. My V3 seems
> to have the same good performance as the Matrox.

> Now to the 3D..

> My main interests are flying and racing sims. Except for the occasional
> blast through another type of game, I am into sims almost exclusively.

> One of the first things I noticed in ALL sims was that they LOOKED
> better. Maybe that crossover cable from V2 was causing some
> signal loss, I don't know, but you will definitely notice the
> improvement in the appearance of 3D games.

> Note: Be sure and grab the Voodoo3 Overclock Utility from:

> ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/3dfiles/utility/v3oc1400.zip

> It allows you to overclock (doh!) as well as adjust other things
> in your card, like 'not sync to monitor refresh', etc.)

> Also, you can set the rendering at 22 bit instead of 16 bit with
> this utility. It looks good, and only costs a miniscule amount
> in framerate. I heard reports of people in QuakeII getting
> 71fps vs 75fps, for example.

> Here are some impressions of various intensive sims that I have
> tried with Voodoo3 16MB vs. my old Voodoo2 8MB. Remember, I am
> using the standard 144mhz clock rate. There is a little more
> performance left in this thing if I were to kick it back up to 166mhz.

> - EAW - European Air War : I run it at 800x600 GLIDE since I don't
> like the cockpit view in 1024x768 etc. How does it perform?

> It never, ever slows down! That's it!

> In several big bomber intercepts, I couldn't detect -any- stuttering.
> Very, very smooth.

> WooHoo!!!

> - WWIIF - It is smoother at higher detail, blah, blah, and I can run
> 1024x768 etc., but I just don't like the sim so I uninstalled it.. :)

> - APACHE HAVOC - Little to no improvement that I could tell. This sim
> is CPU and disk speed sensitive. The V3 probably made a small
> difference, but I didn't notice..

> - FALCON 4.0 -

> I am too old and lazy to learn Falcon, because I am senile and stupid.

> I only fly it in the training missions, and an occasional blast
> through the instant action thang. I do enjoy it in screensaver
> mode, though..hehe. With the Voodoo3, you can select 640x480, 800x600
> and 1600x1200!! from the graphics options. It actually uses the
> normal cockpit in 1600x1200.

> I was using bubble of 3, and everything else maxed (sliders right)
> except for clouds off. I had the 1.06 patch.

> I tried 800x600. There was an -instant- feeling that things were better.
> Using the campaign mode as a screensaver, it was pretty damn smooth.
> -Much- smoother than with the Voodoo2 at those high graphics settings.

> Check this. I went to 1600x1200!! I used the -same- settings as before
> and started a campaign mission. LOL!!!

> Very slow frame rate on takeoff. The text for the framerate, and all
> other text, was so tiny I couldn't read it very well, but it seemed to be
> about 5 fps on the ground. In the air, though, in the screensaver mode,
> the damn thing was running mostly in the 20's in external view.

> I was -shocked- at that speed.. :)

> How much improvement in F4 when changing from V2 to V3? It's hard to
> quantify. Papa Doc's site ( http://www.papadoc.net )should give you
> some more objective ideas about that. I liked (loved) the difference and
> I think you will too.

> Some racing sims:

> - TOCA2 - First off, TOCA2 has no framerate counter, so these are my
> subjective opinions. Incredible w/Voodoo3 vs. the Voodoo2. Before,
> I used 800x600 and set the detail to approx 1/2 to get good
> framerate, with some slowdown in big crashes, etc. With  the Voodoo3,
> I can get the same performance at 1600x1200!!!!!!!! I found that I
> liked 1024x768, on V3, with full detail. It is LIQUID at that point
> with no perceptible slowdown ever, even in replay mode.

> - GPL - I don't race GPL, I hotlap. I used to do it at 800x600, now
> I can get the same results with the framerate needle  pegged (37fps)
> at 1024 x 768, on all tracks. I tried 1600x1200, etc., because it was
> cool, but I liked the smoothness at 1024x768. If you want to
> experience the higher resolutions in GPL with a V3 card, you MUST have
> this fix:

> http://www.grandprix2.com/gpl/patches/glide2x.zip

> Unzip the stuff into your gpl folder and execute GPL with
> this .bat file:

> rem --------------------
> SET FX_GLIDE_TMU_MEMSIZE=8
> GPL.EXE
> rem --------------------

> Of course you also -must- have my mindblowing GPL soundpack <vbg>.

> http://www.grandprix2.com/gpl/sounds/gpl-rev2.zip

> -NASCAR 1999 - Before, I could run very smooth with 12 cars
> ahead and 4 behind with some details off. Now, its balls to
> the wall with ALL 39 cars in front/ 4 behind and the details
> cranked.

> Be aware that for Nascar 1999 to work with V3, you need to
> do this, with a .BAT file:

> SET FX_GLIDE_TMU_MEMSIZE=8
> nr19993d.exe -3dfx

> These are all the sims I have tried so far with V3. After I
> quit driving and flying these, I may have time to report on
> something else.. :)

> -----------------------------------

> * BOTTOM LINE -

> Note: Someone else will have to tell us the difference vs V2-SLI.
> I am only reporting my results vs. my V2 single.

> Here is my bottom line:

> If you have a SINGLE VoodooII, and race/fly polygon intensive sims,
> it is a NO-BRAINER to grab one of these beauties.

> It's $105 at various internet sites. Mine was $129 off the shelf
> at Walden Software. Hell, I heard that even Wal-Mart had them, but
> I can't verify that.

> It is CHEAP, It is VERY FAST. It has HIGH VISUAL QUALITY.

> AND it is available. Just think of it. No more review sites telling
> you how it doesn't compare to the future performance of blah, blah.
> Just a warm feeling of BLAZING speed and great graphics, for a
> tick over $100.

> It is a very nice card!

> Back to my ( F-A-S-T ) sims......

> --
> // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

>Note: Someone else will have to tell us the difference vs V2-SLI.
>I am only reporting my results vs. my V2 single.

> Please give some prices as well.

> >Voodoo 3 is faster on slower CPU's as long as you buy a 3000 or 3500 and
> >compare it to the TNT 2 Ultra at about 175MHz.

> There is no difference between the V3-2000 and V3-3000 speed, at the
> same clock rate. I noticed you omitted it from the discussion, so I thought
> I would mention it.

> V3-2000 costs $105, FWIW.

> >However the extra FPS are
> >a bit of a waste. Who cares if you get 110FPS instead of 90FPS out of a
> >game?

> Framerate is VERY important in the 'games' we play here in the
> flight sim / racing sim newsgroups.

> Actually, it is the MOST important thing.

> We don't have a lot of time to analyze the scenery.

> >As for graphics quality, there is no comparison! TNT has always had
> >nicer looking graphics than Voodoo 2 and this is the case with TNT 2 and
> >Voodoo 3.

> LOL!!!! I guess you haven't seen the image quality on V3.
> One more clue, for you: It is FAR superior to V2 or V2-SLI.

> >More games will support the advanced features of the TNT 2 chipset that
> >simply don't exist in the Voodoo 3 design.

> What games support these 'advanced TNT2 features'?
> Please list them below:

> 1)
> 2)
> 3)
> 4)

> >However, today at right this  minute the Voodoo 3 had the distinct
> >advantage of Glide support.

> Yep. Glide is the fastest API on the earth and it is an _exclusive_
> feature of 3DFX cards.

> >Me, I would but a good TNT 2 Ultra that is guaranteed at 183MHz or there
> >abouts.

> When can you buy one of those Ultras? I'm just curious.

> Diamond, et al, are already **decreasing** the MHZ rate of the TNT2 cards
> they are shipping. You seen really confident that all this will change with Ultra.
> What makes you certain of the sustainable, **supported** clock speed on an Ultra?
> Give us a URL. Cite, please....

> >> Please tell me what card / chip is best Voodoo 3 or TNT 2.

> >> Please give some prices as well.

> $105 - for a Voodoo3 2000.

> --
> // rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

> > The difference between the Voodoo 3 and
> > Voodoo 2 visuals is almost none existent.

> Your outta your mind.....maybe you need to upgrade your monitor. I upgraded from a TNT and
> V2 sli and the TNT graphics were MUCH better than my V2. The V3 graphics are as good as my
> TNT and the colors are richer with the V3 than with the TNT. Then again, I have a high
> dollar monitor so that may be the difference in our set-ups. Just my thoughts : )

> Steven

> BULLSHIT !
> The lack of pass trough cable alone make it look 10 times better, and the
> high quality filter is almost perfect.

> > As for frame rate. Once again I say that if you are getting over 30FPS who
> cares what
> > the max is? Of course it is important to sim players but really, its a bit
> like having
> > a 300KMH road car when the usable speed limit is 100KMH. When both cards
> go through
> > Dirext X the frame rates are so close it doesn't matter.

> BULLSHIT !
> 30fps is just NOT enough !
> We need 1280x960 and 50+ fps, and thats what V3 gives to us !
> TNT2, specially the Ultra is a fine card, but not out yet, and it costs
> twice as much as a V3, amd V3 IS faster...

> > As for advanced features. I said just about every future game will support
> TNT's
> > advanced features and they will. Voodoo 3 can't do 32 bit colour. Voodoo 3
> can't
> > support the larger texture sizes of the TNT 2. Both of these wll be
> important on any
> > future game. TNT 2 is much more future proof. As RiVa3d said,

> Yep, you right there.

>There have been a lot of posts to the original thread about