rec.autos.simulators

GPL about to come off the shelf...

James Pickar

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by James Pickar » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

I can see the diff from 33 to 36 fps!!!!!1

REALLY...    I can detect the diff when for some reason my display drops from 36fps
solid.. to 33fps solid!!!!!!!  WIERD

Any answers..  ..
I've tried heaps..

James Pickard,
Melbourne,
AUSTRALIA


> x-no-archive: yes

> Hi chaps,

> I have GPL stored on the shelf, but should FF arrive in the patch, then I may
> well re-install it.

> I have a couple of questions:

> The first is about framerate...people are talking about rates in the thirties!
> Why would you set it that high? Your eyes can only detect up to about 20, so
> dropping the frame rate would allow more graphics/cars/stuff wouldn't it? I know
> frame rate was an issue in the GP1/2 days, but now most machines can run most
> sims at 20 or above.

> The other question is about hardware...what is the minimum spec required to run
> GPL with everything on?

> Thanks.

> R.

Eric T. Busc

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Eric T. Busc » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

Please don't start this thread again...

Eric



Sammy Fische

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Sammy Fische » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

rrevved schrieb:

> On Mon, 17 May 1999 11:19:11 +0100,


> >people are talking about rates in the thirties!
> >Why would you set it that high? Your eyes can only detect up to about 20, so
> >dropping the frame rate would allow more graphics/cars/stuff wouldn't it?

> Wrong, Richard. If you believe that, then set your monitor for
> a 60hz or lower refresh rate. See if you can detect the difference
> from the normal setting.

> Also, framerate has a lot more to do with 'feel' than vision.
> If your car is stuttering around the track at 20fps, you will
> simply -not- be able to control it as well as you would at 36fps.

The old '24 Frames is enough' argument...

Rrevved is right, the higher the fps, the more fluid the motion seems.
The fact that we use 24/25 fps in movies (except IMAX which runs, I
think, at 60fps) and for TV Broadcasting is linked to the costs of film
material.

A framerate of 24 (or 25 depending where you live) pictures per seconds
established itself as standard, because it fullfilled 2 things :

        - it is fast enough to fake a motion for most people
        - it doesn't use too much expensive film material. (you need nearly 3
times more film if you film at 60fps instead of 24)

Additionally, A movie camera capable of sustaining 60fps would itself
have been quite expensive and difficult to build (at least in the 30's)

My personal threshold lies somewhere between 60 and 80 fps, depending on
how tired I am, and this probably is different for everybody, but don't
fool yourself in believing 20 fps to be the panultimum of visual
pleasure.

bye,
Sammy

Zonk

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Zonk » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

Movie's are shot at 24fps

PAL is 25fps

NTSC is 30fps.

Z.
 :)

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Ruud van Ga

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Ruud van Ga » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00



Actually 29.97fps with the baddest dropframe issues you will EVER see
(hopefully) on this planet. Skipping a frame every hour or so. :)

Ruud van Gaal
MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl
Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

Toni Lassi

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Toni Lassi » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

With 36 fps, the car responds to your control 36 times/second.
With 20 fps, the car responds only 20 times/second.

(36-20)/36=0.444, which means you get 44,4% less control and thus lose
a lot of time. Perhaps it can't be seen (though 20->36 is clearly
visible try it), but it can sure be felt!

Zonk

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Zonk » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

Status: N

I'd be very surpised to learn that the Simulation rate was tied to frame rate.
I'd expect it to be constant.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Zonk

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Zonk » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00


>On Mon, 17 May 1999 14:56:35 GMT,




>>Status: N

>>>>The first is about framerate...people are talking about rates in the
> thirties!
>>>>Why would you set it that high? Your eyes can only detect up to about 20, so
>>>>dropping the frame rate would allow more graphics/cars/stuff wouldn't it? I
>>> know
>>>>frame rate was an issue in the GP1/2 days, but now most machines can run
> most
>>>>sims at 20 or above.

>>>With 36 fps, the car responds to your control 36 times/second.
>>>With 20 fps, the car responds only 20 times/second.

>>I'd be very surpised to learn that the Simulation rate was tied to frame rate.

>>I'd expect it to be constant.

>If you had a very slow system and GPL ran at 1 fps, would you be
>surprised to find that the sim didn't respond to your input as
>well as a person who could run it at 36fps?

>Its the same thing, from 20 - 36fps.

>It has nothing to do with 'simulation rate tied to framerate'.

That's not quite what the person is saying above- he's saying that GPl
responds to your commands at a rate tied to frame rate- that's not true, at
least as i understand it. Therefore, even if it was runnign at 1fps, it will
still respond at the same rate to input as anyone elses pc.

What is different is your response to the visual information about track
poisiton, car orientation, etc.

As for the frame rate question, is there a physical limit on what is useful?
All i've ever seen is heresy, and nothing of a respectable source saying what
is a real limit. What i am inclinded to believe, especialy in the case of GPL
and other sims is that *if* the limit was 25fps for what u could see, then
if you're sitting just on the mark, you'll notice it when momentarily (heavy
traffic, smoke, etc) it dips below. The higher frame rate (36, etc) will give
you more of a safety net.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Simon Goodwi

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Simon Goodwi » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

If your not playing GPL because your input device doesn't wiggle a bit, then you're
not playing sims for the right reason at all! Just leave it on the shelf bud.

Simon


> Hi chaps,

> I have GPL stored on the shelf, but should FF arrive in the patch, then I may
> well re-install it.

> I have a couple of questions:

> The first is about framerate...people are talking about rates in the thirties!
> Why would you set it that high? Your eyes can only detect up to about 20, so
> dropping the frame rate would allow more graphics/cars/stuff wouldn't it? I know
> frame rate was an issue in the GP1/2 days, but now most machines can run most
> sims at 20 or above.

> The other question is about hardware...what is the minimum spec required to run
> GPL with everything on?

> Thanks.

> R.

Hans

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Hans » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

  Amen to that Simon, well said.

  Charles

device doesn't wiggle a bit, then you're

Zonk

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Zonk » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00


>  Amen to that Simon, well said.

>  Charles


>device doesn't wiggle a bit, then you're
>>not playing sims for the right reason at all! Just leave it on the shelf
>bud.

>>Simon

Oh great guru, please grant us lesser mortals & the meek permission to play
software that we own in the first place.

:P

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

Jo

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Jo » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00


Bzzzt, WRONG, thanks for playing!

Joe

Hans

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Hans » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

 What are you some kinda FFF? (Force Feedback Freak) Ive tried FF and all it
did was make a sim seem like a game. Have you ever tried a decent wheel like
a TSW2? Those FF wheels are plastic.

   Charles


>Oh great guru, please grant us lesser mortals & the meek permission to play
>software that we own in the first place.

Tilu

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Tilu » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

Sorry but that is bullshit.
I can easily see the diff between 40 and 50fps, and GPL at 36fps is
definetly SLOW.
Guess what, you CAN se the diff between 50 and 100 too !

Well...depends on what is good ebough for ya...if 10-20 fps enough, and your
eyes cant se more, stick whit a shitty rendition and Pentium133.

Pat Dotso

GPL about to come off the shelf...

by Pat Dotso » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

What are you, some kind of AFFF? (Anti-Force Feedback Freak, there
are a lot of them) :)

You just haven't tried the right FF sim yet.  Don't worry, it's
coming.  And, yes, I have tried a TSW2, and with a choice between
it or my FF wheel, I'll choose my FF wheel in the aforementioned
FF sim anytime.

>  What are you some kinda FFF? (Force Feedback Freak) Ive tried FF and all it
> did was make a sim seem like a game. Have you ever tried a decent wheel like
> a TSW2? Those FF wheels are plastic.

>    Charles


> >Oh great guru, please grant us lesser mortals & the meek permission to play
> >software that we own in the first place.

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports
http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

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