rec.autos.simulators

Again, the TSW is holding up just fine.  It's the way I was treated by
TE (i.e. with suspicion, indifference and a
we'll-get-around-to-it-someday-Why-should-we-hurry-when-we've-already-got-your-money
attitude.).  As you can see, three years later, I'm still pissed and
leery enough of their service department's -- shall we say -- casual
turnaround time, to endure the defective mini-plug rather than send it
back and be without a controller for another three or four months.

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
"If God had intended man to join the Army he would have given us green,
baggy skin"

    Dave, its better of you to send a personal e-mail to him to resolve the issue.  By calling him a liar in a public forum is beyond professionalism.  In fact, it drives home the point he was trying to make about your business.  Go back to your mom-and-pop operation, and hook up the Fisher Price Workshop.  Maybe if you spent more time building them wheel-thingies, rather then seeing what everyone has to say about you, you might be able to cut some time off of your FOUR MONTH waiting period for a wheel
    That is a very, VERY bad thing to tell one of your customers.....to tell them to "run down to radio shack" to fix a problem, instead of YOU making it right in the first place.

   ....you could run down to Radio Shack and get the problem fixed in about a day, without having to even contact us.

Bob,

    Well said. As more and more sims come online with Force Feedback equal
to or better than what we now have in gpl,you will be hard pressed not to
have a decent FF wheel to be able to experience it,and the sim to the max.

     I both emailed and read emails from Dave jr at TSW. And if you read
between the lines,they are slowly coming to that realization.
Certainly,within a few years,FF will be the norm not the exception. One has
to change with the times,or be buried by those very times.

Joel Willstein

Regarding the appearance of a TSW, I would suggest you look at the
interior of a Ferrari racing car -- there may be bare metal and the
finish may be rough but it's ideal in its function.  The TSW is easy
to work on, even for someone with ten thumbs like me and lasts
forever.  The only reason to spend more is for the supposed prestige
of the name, not the quality of the product.  

Randy
Randy Magruder
http://members.home.com/rmagruder

Randy

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Exactly the same reason I will NEVER do any sort of business with TE again.  

--
Sean Higgins

"HigPup"
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/  HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128
http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/  
http://www.colormation.com   Colormation (sponsor of H.O. Motorsports)
http://www.atitech.ca   ATI Technologies

    Again, the TSW is holding up just fine.  It's the way I was treated by TE (i.e. with suspicion, indifference and a we'll-get-around-to-it-someday-Why-should-we-hurry-when-we've-already-got-your-money attitude.).  

Maybe you should try running a business sometime? Maybe you should try
and make a successful well-received product which gives a lot of
people a lot of fun? Maybe you should show some balls and post using a
real name and address? Gutless wonders like you are what everyone here
doesn't need.

Dave is suggesting this as an alternative to having to send the wheel
away for repair. If the customer wants it done in 10 minutes, it woul
dbe easier to visit Radio Shack. If he wants it done by TSW, then he
sends it back to them, but it takes longer (naturally).

--
Nathan Wong             http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
                      Super Touring - Club Cars - Alfa Romeo

                            http://fullspeed.to/astc
                   Australian Super Touring News and Information

I have nothing against the TSW.  Mechanically, my wheel has met all of my expectations.
It is smooth as Michael Jordan's pate, solid as the Matterhorn and easier to work on than
than a '57 Chevy.  Electronically, it's not up to the same standards, BUT it still does
the job.  Do I regret buying a TSW?  No.  Quite the contrary.  Did I advise the man not
to buy a TSW?  No, I did not.  In fact, at the beginning of my message I explained that I
had ordered the TSW apparently during some sort of company upheaval.  I couldn't care any
less now than I did three years ago what Thomas Enterprises' problems are.  I did
business with them for mutual benefit.  I expected them to make a profit selling me a
WORKING unit that I'd be happy with.  That TE lost their profit from my sale because of
their screwup is not my problem.

Yes, Mr. Magruder, you're right.  A small company can have problems.  But there is no
excuse for any company, new or old, to treat their customers as combatants or
adversaries, especially when the reason for the problem is because of a defective unit.
Everyone makes mistakes.  It's how you handle those mistakes that separate the
professionals from the amateurs.  If I was running TE and had seen my posting, I would
have done three things immediately.

First, I would have replied to the offended party PRIVATELY and offered to make the
product right, not tell them publicly to take a hike to the nearest RadShack.  I would
have had the customer send it back at company expense and I would have given it
priority.  I would have fixed the problem, done any upgrades available and sent it back
much better than received.

Second, I would have checked company procedures and lines of communications and made
damned sure that nothing like this ever happened again.  Customers are not adversaries
and should never be treated as such -- even when they're wrong.

Thirdly, I'd try to find out why the product was defective in the first place and alter
the design, manufacturing process or materials to correct it.

Under no circumstances would I call a customer a liar just to save face, especially in a
public forum.  If anyone in my company ever did a thing like that, (s)he'd be fired
immediately.

--
Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
"If God had intended man to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Nor do I.

Sounds like me.

I accept that.  I'm not excusing anything that happened to you now or
three years ago.  What AM saying is that if TE has cleaned up their
act since, or that your experience was not indicative of what others
experience, they have a right to set that straight.  My experience
with them has been very good, for example.  Of course, if they tell me
how I can fix some problem myself or send it back in, it's my choice.
How many people send their broken-springed Thrustmasters back to TSW
versus just getting new springs and replacing them by themselves?
It's a choice each company gives you:  You fix it, or we'll fix it.
Most people don't want to be without a wheel so they fix it
themselves.

Let me ask you this.  Did they refuse to fix it?  Or were they
offering you a way to deal with the problem that would be quicker and
cheaper than shipping the unit to them?

But customers who trash a company publicly CAN be corrected by someone
in the company if they are wrong.  Bigger companies hire PR people to
make "statements", a company like TE is too small for that so they
have to defend themselves and they are obviously not professional PR
people.  I would not defend them trashing a customer here, but I do
support their right to defend themselves, particularly if someone is
trying to infer that everyone is unhappy with their service, when in
reality it might be only a small % (and if you are being truthful
you'd admit that there isn't a single company out there that doesn't
have some % of dissatisfied or angry customers).

If it were just "saving face" I'd agree with you, but since people
here tend to be the biggest potential customers of their product, and
this IS their livelihood, if a customer tells a lie, and the company
has evidence to demonstrate that its a lie, I am GLAD they spoke up
and pointed it out.  This IS the Internet, after all, and people say
LOTS of things they can't back up.  Let's say, for example, that I
grew up with Dave Thomas and he stole and married my girlfriend.  Now
as an *** I might have an axe to grind, so I go on the Internet and
begin trashing his new company, calling his product garbage and his
customer support terrible.  Customers are reading this and turning to
alternative products, meaning my slam tactics are working.  Is that
right?  The above is just an example (I don't know anyone in that
company personally).  The point is, if someone tries to drive off your
customers by telling a lie, there's NOTHING wrong with disputing it.
If the customer does so publicly, then the company has the right to
defend itself publicly.  TE is not a huge company where an internet
malcontent doesn't matter.  It DOES matter because their market is a
niche market and every unrefuted bad report on them has the ability to
impact their livelihood.  

I will also add that if it were a matter of opinion, the company
should keep it's mouth shut.  If I own a TSW and tell everyone I'm
unhappy with the way it was built and don't like the feel of it, the
TSW reps have no business telling me I'm "wrong".  It's a matter of
opinion.  But if TSW has records demonstrating that someone is trying
to slander them publicly, I believe they have the right to demonstrate
that, so as not to allow potential customers (again, in this NICHE
market) to be frightened off by something untrue.

Finally, I don't know the truth on this and don't claim to.  The
customer could be right and TSW could be lying for all I know.  I'm
only arguing that IF TE is telling the truth they have the right to
investigate it and supply the evidence.  If that means telling
everyone that  customer is fibbing, then fine.

Randy

Randy Magruder
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Eldred

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