rec.autos.simulators

My God GP4 is painful!

Damien Smit

My God GP4 is painful!

by Damien Smit » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:29:52

> With a GF4 you can have the speed of a GF3 but with FSAA and hardly a drop
> in performance.
> Thats what I'm talking about :)

it..
> definately worth it.
> Plus my system isn't that costly....just buy the right CPU and you'll go a
> long way..

Yeah, though AMD gives better value for money.. ; )

2xFSAA does virtually nothing - 1280x960x32 looks far better than
1024x768x32 with 2xAA and it runs quicker too.  Sounds like you've swallowed
Nvidia's marketing hook, line and sinker or you've got a ***monitor.  I've
got a GF4 Ti4600 and I wouldn't say it's a quantum leap over the GF3 - more
of a minor upgrade.

Frod

My God GP4 is painful!

by Frod » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:12:47


GP2 was a HUGE leap up from WC. GP3 was a minor upgrade to GP2 and people
noticed. I wasn't really unhappy with purchasing GP3, I was just mildly
disappointed. It had numerous bugs and features lacking, yet it saw only 1
patch that didn't even fix the worst bugs. It didn't have the multiplayer
features that was promised pre-release, nor did it recieve a patch including
it. Not even the "pay-for-me" 2000 season had that afaik.

So now GP4 is released and people are starting to really show their
discontent. Yet another minor upgrade for a full game price. This time Geoff
ain't getting my dough. If enough have that attitude it will show on the
sales (I really doubt that'll happen though, cause the magazines will give
it rave reviews) and then maybe GP5 will really be the game the GP series
deserves.

--
Frode

Andre Warring

My God GP4 is painful!

by Andre Warring » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:15:35

On Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:09:44 -0400, Sebastion Melmoth


>It was shown on a prototype ATI R300 as far as I know. Never seen any
>mention of it being shown on a GF3.

When the GF3 was introduced, they showed Doom3 on it.

Andre

Johnny Mod

My God GP4 is painful!

by Johnny Mod » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:47:23


Are you just trolling now? I think to say GP4 is not far from GP2 is
ridiculous. GP2 max res was only 800x600, it was limited to 25 fps, there
was no proper collision physics, the cars couldn't overturn, there were no
weather effects, there was no virtual***pit, there were no revolving
wheels, there was no GPS track data, no 3D marshalls and crew, no track tyre
marks, not to mention less sophisticated AI and data logging. If you run GP2
and GP4 side-by-side you'll see that the graphical and other improvements
are infact enormous.

Johnny.

Johnny Mod

My God GP4 is painful!

by Johnny Mod » Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:56:33


(FSAA)

FSAA was infact a 3dfx development. The technology first saw the light of
day in the home desktop environment with the 3dfx Voodoo 4 and 5's in 2000.
This was after years of it being used in professional applications. ATi and
nVidia saw the benefits and quickly incorporated it into their next
products.

I've tried GP4 both with and without AA enabled, and there's no doubt that
it does infact smooth-out the jagged edges. The arc of the front tyres is
particularly improved. nVidia did a lot of work on the GF4 architecture to
ensure that the performance hit with AA was not as great as had been with
their previous GF3 products.

Johnny.

Dave Henri

My God GP4 is painful!

by Dave Henri » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:59




<snippers>

> Are you just trolling now? I think to say GP4 is not far from GP2 is
> ridiculous. GP2 max res was only 800x600, it was limited to 25 fps, there
> was no proper collision physics, the cars couldn't overturn, there were no
> weather effects, there was no virtual***pit, there were no revolving
> wheels, there was no GPS track data, no 3D marshalls and crew, no track
tyre
> marks, not to mention less sophisticated AI and data logging. If you run
GP2
> and GP4 side-by-side you'll see that the graphical and other improvements
> are infact enormous.

> Johnny.

   How many of those features you listed above debuted (debutted?) in GP3?
dave henrie
Ronald Stoeh

My God GP4 is painful!

by Ronald Stoeh » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:19:11




snip

>>marks, not to mention less sophisticated AI and data logging. If you run

> GP2

>>and GP4 side-by-side you'll see that the graphical and other improvements
>>are infact enormous.

>>Johnny.

>    How many of those features you listed above debuted (debutted?) in GP3?
> dave henrie

How many did in N4?? Oh wait, it's a Papy sim...

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

Ronald Stoeh

My God GP4 is painful!

by Ronald Stoeh » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:17:36




snip
>>compared to driving around it with calibrated settings. I tried both. The
>>buildings are still extremely low detail textures. The crowd are still
>>totally flat 2D cardboard cutouts, with the exception of a few flags
>>(animated with a total of 5ish frames looks like) totally static. It's not
>>far from GP2 tbh.

> Are you just trolling now? I think to say GP4 is not far from GP2 is
> ridiculous. GP2 max res was only 800x600, it was limited to 25 fps, there

Yes, he is.

Why did never anyone call N2002 just N4.1??
Or EA 2k1 just EA 2k2... oh wait, they do!! ;)

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

jason moy

My God GP4 is painful!

by jason moy » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 02:05:40


> <snip>
> > Your simulations are very nice but would be at least the equal of the
> > mighty Papyrus sims if you did the following:
> <snip>

> I thought you said you hated Papy-nazis? ; )

If I were a Papy-nazi I wouldn't be looking forward to picking up F12k2. :)

Jason

Gunnar Horrigm

My God GP4 is painful!

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:06:11


> On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:15:35 +0200, Andre Warringa

> >When the GF3 was introduced, they showed Doom3 on it.

> >Andre

> Really? Not calling you a liar, but I find that hard to believe
> because the first ever screen shots of Doom3 just came out recently
> and they were shown on the R300.

wrong.  Carmack showed a realtime demo of Doom 3 on some Macintosh
expo about, oh, two years ago, I think.  dont know what graphics
chipset he ran it on, but it could have been a GF3-prototype.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                             gitaren er en sjingke

Frod

My God GP4 is painful!

by Frod » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:37:26


Nope, never do.

From my point of view, no it isn't.

Whereas GP4 will run decently in 1024x768 at 25fps with my current rig. The
difference isn't all that huge. Either way resolution = eyecandy only. It
doesn't look any less detailed in lower resolutions, just bigger.

I happily pushed the AI cars off the track in WC. I'm quite sure they didn't
suddenly make the cars just drive through eachother in GP2. More detailed
pieces flying off is irrelevant. Pushing a car off affects the race the same
regardless of how it looks.

That hardly makes or breaks the experience to me. True, cars toppling over
and pieces flying all over the place is more realistic and obviously doesn't
detract from the experience. But I drive a racing sim to race, not see cars
crash realistically.

What GP2 did quite happily do was totally break the car to pieces, lifting
the nose 45 degrees and dumping it back down when hitting a cerb at an odd
angle at 10kph. Actually GP3 did that too, I've yet to see it in GP4.

Come to think of it, didn't GP2 add the ability for the cards to turn x
degrees whereas GP3 enabled them to overturn completely?

That only adds another environment to race in. I drive almost all my races
in the dry and am quite happy with it. If a car blowing an engine in front
of me made the track damn slippery, that would add something much more
important. Immersion.

Whoppie, instead of seeing a static dash you now see a dash bobbing about as
your head is moved by G and a wheel turning. You couldn't even look sideways
until GP4. So much for virtual***pit as we know it from flightsims of
years and years gone by. Either way it's a graphical addon, nothing else.

If you prefer to watch the wheels turn while racing, you probably should
consider your priorities.

That's the one very nice thing about GP4 as opposed to the prequels. Not
that a fixed width track ruined the experience in the previous incarnations,
but track layout being accurate is very nice. Score one for GP4 (this is
actually where it scores its only point).

And this improves the drive how, exactly? It doesn't. Parts of it ruins it
imo. That guy saying "clear" when there's a string of 3 cars coming. Very
realistic, I'm sure he would do that in real life. The crew waiting till I
stop outside the garage after a flying lap, then not bothering to bring me
into the garage, leaving me there for the rest of the qualifying. Clever
clever and adds a lot to the realism.

Extremely tiny graphical addition

They act much the same now. They're better at giving you room and using the
room you give them, true, but they're still totally blind during qualifying.

And a less accessible car setup screen layout to make it as hard as possible
to use the extra data. In all honesty though, I never used data logging all
that much. I got by fine on simply tweaking wings based on where I was
losing time on track.

Graphical improvements are there, obviously. But at the core of it, not a
whole lot changed. A car losing a wing in a crash or going vertical then
slamming back down causing it to lose a wing, makes no difference to me, the
wing is lost and the effect on the race identical.

What the GP series lacks isn't graphical doohickieys. That's what GC has
been adding since GP2. It needs a more realistic and atmosphering F1 racing
experience. That means safety car, stop/go penalties, drive-through
penalties, realistic tyre wear (make it an actual point to go in and change
tyres) etc. It doesn't need virtual***pit, 3d pitcrew, more flat cardboard
cutouts lining the track, cars breaking off into 200 pieces as opposed to 5.
Those are sweet additions but they're not what makes the core simulation
work and fun.

I was disappointed when I went form GP2 to GP3, but not a whole lot so. From
GP3 to GP4 is a whole different story.

--
Frode

Andre Warring

My God GP4 is painful!

by Andre Warring » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:22:17

On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:19:11 +0200, Ronald Stoehr


>How many did in N4?? Oh wait, it's a Papy sim...

N4 is a MAJOR enhancement over N3.
GP4 is HARDLY an enhancement over GP3.

Andre

Andre Warring

My God GP4 is painful!

by Andre Warring » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:25:29

On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:46:20 -0400, Sebastion Melmoth


>On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:15:35 +0200, Andre Warringa

>>When the GF3 was introduced, they showed Doom3 on it.

>>Andre

>Really? Not calling you a liar, but I find that hard to believe
>because the first ever screen shots of Doom3 just came out recently
>and they were shown on the R300. Can you provide proof?

Actually I downloaded that GF3 presentation from the internet so I saw
it myself. I can't remember where I downloaded it from unfortunately
:-/

Andre

Andre Warring

My God GP4 is painful!

by Andre Warring » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:31:07



More info about that GF# presentation: They showed that famous
rendered Pixar movie with a big and a small lamp. That lamp is now the
logo of Pixar http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/aboutus/index.html.
Only at the GF3 presentation the movie was not rendered, but
calculated real time.

After that they showed a bit of Doom 3. Maybe someone else remembers
that presentation movie now and even knows where to download it?

Andre

Ronald Stoeh

My God GP4 is painful!

by Ronald Stoeh » Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:50:54


> On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:19:11 +0200, Ronald Stoehr

>>How many did in N4?? Oh wait, it's a Papy sim...

> N4 is a MAJOR enhancement over N3.
> GP4 is HARDLY an enhancement over GP3.

Geez, I was comparing N4 and N2002. And the longer I
drive GP4, the more I compare the diff between it and GP3
as the diff between N4 and N3.

Turn off ALL driving aids, reduce wings a little and those cars
do get very alive...

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?


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