rec.autos.simulators

by **steven dawkin** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
new FF wheel.

No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
(Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

Some supplementary points:
I don't have a USB connection
I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

Ok - I'm listening....

--
Steven Dawkins
Research Associate

by **Jim Dombrowsk** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I personally went with the Act Labs. But if your not willing to do the
shipping, they have some reviews about it and the other wheels your
considering here. http://www.actlab.com/race1_reviews.htm
After Act Labs, most reviews went with the Logitech. Most that I talk to
are happy with it. Hate to say it but you can save about $50 ordering even
that wheel over the net here
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/go.dll/-s/ffjoystk

Jim D

>I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

>At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
>new FF wheel.

>No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

>The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
>(Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
>I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

>Some supplementary points:
>I don't have a USB connection
>I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
>I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

>Ok - I'm listening....

>--
>Steven Dawkins
>Research Associate

by **Les Marto** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Steven,

The answer is simple in your case - go with the Logitech Wingman Extreme.
Why?

- Consumes much less CPU than the Microsoft (ok for your 350 Pentium)
- Supports USB and Serial (so it will work for you)
- Logitech is an all round better wheel with better FF than the Microsoft.

The only cons with the Logitech are it's pedals but I find them not that bad
once you get used to them.

Good luck with your choice.

Les.

by **David Kar** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Yes, and in the latest series of Logi. wheels (red wheels), the brake spring
*is* stiffer--and in any case, it's a simple job to open up the pedal bases
and stiffen it even more.

--DK

> Steven,

> The answer is simple in your case - go with the Logitech Wingman Extreme.
> Why?

> - Consumes much less CPU than the Microsoft (ok for your 350 Pentium)
> - Supports USB and Serial (so it will work for you)
> - Logitech is an all round better wheel with better FF than the Microsoft.

> The only cons with the Logitech are it's pedals but I find them not that
bad
> once you get used to them.

> Good luck with your choice.

> Les.

> > I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

> > At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
> > new FF wheel.

> > No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

> > The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
> > (Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
> > I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

> > Some supplementary points:
> > I don't have a USB connection
> > I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
> > I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

> > Ok - I'm listening....

> > --
> > Steven Dawkins
> > Research Associate

by **Colin McSkimmin** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Go for the MSFF simply because of the pedal set.The Logitech pedals are
pretty guff & there's not much between the wheels. Should be able to pick up
a MSFF for around 90 nowadays.

by **Ace** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

The Logi has a more subtle FF effect then the MS Wheel. The MS pedals are
FAR superior (they're the right size for starters). Unless you have size
three feet, i wouldn't bother with the Logi Wheel. I was unfortunate enough
to use one a week ago at a friends and it sucked.

>Steven,

>The answer is simple in your case - go with the Logitech Wingman Extreme.
>Why?

>- Consumes much less CPU than the Microsoft (ok for your 350 Pentium)
>- Supports USB and Serial (so it will work for you)
>- Logitech is an all round better wheel with better FF than the Microsoft.

>The only cons with the Logitech are it's pedals but I find them not that
bad
>once you get used to them.

>Good luck with your choice.

>Les.

>> I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

>> At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
>> new FF wheel.

>> No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

>> The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
>> (Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
>> I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

>> Some supplementary points:
>> I don't have a USB connection
>> I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
>> I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

>> Ok - I'm listening....

>> --
>> Steven Dawkins
>> Research Associate

by LL » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Sorry to say so but if you are going to spend 100 quids and you don't want
to get the best just because you don't want to shop on the net you are quite
silly ?

Why buy something not as good as you could get gfor your money ?

Anyway it's your choice but i got my A-L on the net, everything went great,
and now I can enjoy the best wheel around....

by **steven dawkin** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Ok... its nearly five o'clock here. This is how the different wheels
faired in this group:

Logitech : 3 votes
Microsoft : 2 votes
Guillemot : 1 vote
Spoilt Paper : 2 votes

Hmm... I wonder...

Thanks to all those who helped.

Steve

> I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

> At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
> new FF wheel.

> No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

> The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
> (Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
> I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

> Some supplementary points:
> I don't have a USB connection
> I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
> I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

> Ok - I'm listening....

> --
> Steven Dawkins
> Research Associate

--
Steven Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York.

Email Disclaimer
----------------------
The information in this email is confidential.
It is intended solely for the addressee.
Access to this email by anyone else is
unauthorised.

The views expressed in this email are those of
the author, and should not be attributed to the
University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any
other party.

by **SpeedFree** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I have tried both wheels and I have to say the
Logitech Wingman Formula Force is much
better than the microsoft wheel.

The LWFF wheel feels less "notchy" in comparison to the MSFF, and
once you set it up right, it gives out far more different kinds of
feedback than the MSFF. (I have tried them only in GPL)
All the subtle effects are there, grip level etc etc, as well as the
heavy effects like hitting the barriers...

NOW FOR THE CLINCHER>>> CPU LOAD!!

I have a pentium P2 233 and the Logitech knocks 0.5fps from
GPL at most.
The MSFF knocks off 10-15fps!!!!!!

This is because of the totally inefficient way that the MSFF is
programmed.. here are the figures from Alison Hines website.

MSFF 4,000,000 cpu cycles per FF instruction
LWFF 30,000 cpu cycles per FF instruction!!!!!!

That isn't a typo above, those are the correct figures.. the
MSFF uses over 100x more cpu power than the LWFF!!
And imho, the LWFF gives for better feedback when set up
correctly... the newest drivers have opened up 33% more power
from the LWFF due to a bug in older drivers too!!

>I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

>At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
>new FF wheel.

>No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

>The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
>(Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
>I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

>Some supplementary points:
>I don't have a USB connection
>I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
>I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

>Ok - I'm listening....

>--
>Steven Dawkins
>Research Associate

by **GTX_SlotCa** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

But Guillemot is not local. I'd have cast my vote for Logitech for something
you buy locally, but have to agree with another gent above, that the Act
Labs is a better choice, as is the Guillemot Ferrari. I'm not knocking the
MS or Logi, but these other 2 are a more complete package where the wheel
and pedals are both good.

Slot

> Ok... its nearly five o'clock here. This is how the different wheels
> faired in this group:

> Logitech : 3 votes
> Microsoft : 2 votes
> Guillemot : 1 vote
> Spoilt Paper : 2 votes

> Hmm... I wonder...

> Thanks to all those who helped.

> Steve

> > I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

> > At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
> > new FF wheel.

> > No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

> > The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
> > (Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
> > I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

> > Some supplementary points:
> > I don't have a USB connection
> > I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
> > I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

> > Ok - I'm listening....

> > --
> > Steven Dawkins
> > Research Associate

> --
> Steven Dawkins - Research Assistant - University of York.

> Email Disclaimer
> ----------------------
> The information in this email is confidential.
> It is intended solely for the addressee.
> Access to this email by anyone else is
> unauthorised.

> The views expressed in this email are those of
> the author, and should not be attributed to the
> University of York, BAE SYSTEMS or any
> other party.

by **Kurt Steinboc** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

some snipped
more snipped

Freek, I'm not disputing your review of the Logitech, or the fact that it's
more processor-friendly than the MSFF wheel, but a hit of 10 to 15 frames
per second for the MSFF? C'mon!

I have a PII 233 as well (sigh), but my experience with the MSFF is nothing
REMOTELY close to what you're reporting.

Regards,

Kurt

by **Tony Graha** » Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I found the logitech made my wrists ache after a while so I stayed with the
Microsoft wheel. Yes there was a significant FPS hit with the wheel with GPL
of about 4 FPS which was remedied with DX7a.

by **SpeedFree** » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

All I can tell you is that my fps in GPL is a constant 35-36 with the LWFF
but it dropped as low as 21-22 fps with the MSFF.. not all the time.. but
at certain times it seemed to get a lot of slowdown... maybe my
configuration
is different from yours.

>some snipped

>>I have a pentium P2 233 and the Logitech knocks 0.5fps from
>>GPL at most.
>>The MSFF knocks off 10-15fps!!!!!!

>>This is because of the totally inefficient way that the MSFF is
>>programmed.. here are the figures from Alison Hines website.

>more snipped

>Freek, I'm not disputing your review of the Logitech, or the fact that it's
>more processor-friendly than the MSFF wheel, but a hit of 10 to 15 frames
>per second for the MSFF? C'mon!

>I have a PII 233 as well (sigh), but my experience with the MSFF is nothing
>REMOTELY close to what you're reporting.

>Regards,

>Kurt

by **Brett C. Camma** » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Supposedly DirectX 7.0a corrected or diminished that problem from what
I have been able to ascertain from reading various FAQs and sim
websites, but I have not confirmed it personally.

Regards,
Brett C. Cammack
That's Racing! Motorsports
Pompano Beach, FL

by **Andi Col** » Sun, 05 Mar 2000 04:00:00

And the result was??

Andi, a bit late but my vote would have gone for the Logi, you do get used
to the pedals.

> I found the logitech made my wrists ache after a while so I stayed with
the
> Microsoft wheel. Yes there was a significant FPS hit with the wheel with
GPL
> of about 4 FPS which was remedied with DX7a.

> > I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer.

> > At about 5pm today, I'm going to spend about 100 ($160?) on a
> > new FF wheel.

> > No ifs or buts ... I want straight advice.

> > The choice will be the Microsoft one or the Logitech one.
> > (Forget the ACT one - its not in the shops around here and
> > I'm not prepared to order over the Internet)

> > Some supplementary points:
> > I don't have a USB connection
> > I'm concerned about Processor loading (I have a P2-350)
> > I run CMR, RC2000 and (when bored) NFS 3

> > Ok - I'm listening....

> > --
> > Steven Dawkins
> > Research Associate

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