rec.autos.simulators

I want to buy a for this moment not to expensive system (500 euro) to play
GTL, GTR and RFactor.

So i am looking at a computer with a VIA K8M800 chipset, 512MB DDR-SDram
with a AMD64 3000+
On the mainboard is an Integrated UniChrome Pro IGP VGA card. ( chipset
specs below)

( VGA can be upgraded with a AGP 8X card so that can be an option ( in
time ))

http://www.racesimcentral.net/
o=SIDV11&#tecData

I know there are faster and beter systems, but can I play these games with
this PC ??

THX in advance !!

Specs VIA K8M800 chipset:
      North Bridge
      Processor Support AMD AthlonT64 & OpteronT Single/Dual Processor
Support
      Front Side Bus 800MHz HyperTransport Bus Link
      Memory Support 64/128-bit Dual Channel DDR memory controller
integrated directly into processor
      Graphics / Video Integrated UniChromeT Pro IGP
      - Dual pixel pipelines
      - 128-bit 2D/3D engine
      - 200MHz engine clock speed
      - 16-64MB shared memory
      Optional external AGP 8X/4X port

      MPEG-2 hardware acceleration

      South Bridge VIA VT8237R
      North/South Bridge Link V-Link (533MB/sec)
      Audio VIA VinylT 6-channel Audio (AC'97 integrated)

      VIA VinylT Gold 8-channel Audio (PCI companion controller)

      Network  VIA VelocityT Gigabit Ethernet (PCI companion controller)

      VIA integrated 10/100 Fast Ethernet

      Modem MC'97
      PCI Devices/Slots 6 slots

      SATA Dual Channel Serial ATA supports 2 SATA devices

      SATALiteT interface for two additional SATA devices (4 total)

      V-RAID  RAID 0, RAID 1, and RAID 0+1* & JBOD (SATA)
      PATA Parallel ATA133 (up to 4 devices)
      USB 8 ports
      I/O Protocols I/O APIC / LPC Super I/0
      Power Management ACPI/APM/PCI/PM

Here's a reasonable upgrade path - start with:
AsRock Dual SATA m/b
AMD x64 processor
512mb RAM (better to start with 1gb - get 2 sticks of RAM whatever you
decide so you can go dual-channel).
ATI 9800XT (cheap these days, you could get one for a steal used), X800
if you can swing it.  The 9800 can use the AGP slot, or you can go with
a PCI-Express for X800 video card.  If you go PCI-Express to start, you
could use an nForce4 motherboard).

For future upgrades, you could get a better PCI-Express video card, a
faster dual-core CPU (when games+drivers really take advantage of dual
core), and more RAM.

Are you willing to build, or do you want a prebuilt system?  Either
way, the PC you listed above will *not* cut it for GTR/GTL.

HTH,
Kendt

GP

  GTR and I suspect GTL will definately not be happy with that system.  
They will run, but they will have long loading times, and suffer SERIOUS
frame-rate issues due to a lack of system RAM.   As the others have said,
the onboard video is just not going to be sufficiently stout to run well.
Sure it may run, but like a stop motion film I suspect.
  I currently have the same cpu and similar motherboard.  MSI K8MM-V.  It
was as fast as I could afford at the time.   I transferred my 512mb over at
first from my old motherboard and some sims, like F1c ran fine.  But GTR
had huge problems, I had such poor framerates that I had to let the AI
drive the first lap or two just to get through the laggy jerky single digit
fps.  This occured at the start of races and also when GTR loaded up a new
time period for one of the 24hr tracks.  ABYSMAL is the only word I can
use.(and this was with an ATI X800pro with 256mb of video RAM, certainly
not top drawer but far FAR superior to your onboard video chip)
  Because the MSI was a low cost motherboard,  it only has two ram slots.  
So when I upgraded,  I had to remove one of my matched dual channel DDR
256mb sticks and add a 1gb of a lesser quality ram.  The difference though
in GTR with 1.2gb of unmatched system ram is amazing.

  These are my rules for *** systems.
1. NEVER use onboard video or Audio.  NEVER.  I mean that.  You are only
asking for pain from slow performance and lockups.  Did I mention that
onboard video consumes system ram?  Did I mention that 512mb was just not
enough to satify Windows XP and GTR?  I'm sure a half dozen people will
chip in that they run onboard sound or video with no problem and all I can
say to that is they are the exception.  Nearly 10 years of reading and
posting online has convinced me of that.
2.  See rule number 1
3.  Buy as fast of a cpu as you can afford.  
4.  If your system is based on XP, then the minimum ammount of RAM for
serious fluid performance is 1gb.  More is better.  2gb is great sweetspot.
5.  I really really mean it about rule #1  Go read that again.

dave henrie

Dave
I think (willing to be proved wrong though) that you're being over harsh on
onboard Audio.  I don't believe the performance hit is that high and decent
OBO is good quality, my NForce2 with OBO runs the same sims, at similar FRs
and settings, as a friends similar system with separate card.

With video OTOH, the jury is in.  I believe you take two significant hits.
1. It robs system RAM so slows things down and 2. It uses the CPU for
graphics processing, so slows it down some more.

So to the OP, even a budget graphics card is better than OBV.

Cheers
Martin

Nforce is again different than any other "standard" (can you say onboard)
soundcard spec out there.  yeah, nforce2 3 & 4 are the exceptions to the
onboard chipset are ***rule, simply because Nforce is designed ground up
to be ***/higher end products.

I can tell you my AC/97 onboard sound causes lots of headaches and framerate
hit.  On a cheapo motherboard, which is soon to be rectified with
mohterboard of the Nforce flavor, probably 4 with sli.

you made the assumption that everyone else makes onboard sound as good as
Nforce designed it, not hardly the case.

MC enlightened us with:

Fair enough!  Must admit, that the NForce is the first time I've been happy
with OBS, 'tho I've had it for about 3 years now.  My main reason for
replying was that I though that DH's use of NEVER with regard to OBS was
mis-leading.

Are there any views out there on which OBS seems ok and which to avoid?

 AGP is on its way to extinction, you might get a good used

AGP allready limits your options and you get much more performence per
dollar with PCIe. Buying an AGP mobo is not the thing to do if there is the
slightest chance you will get a graphics card in the near or distant future.
It's almost like buying a PC with only PCI slots. Look at how few PCI cards
there are to choose from and how expensive they are compared to AGP cards
with same or better GPU.

Jone T.

I guess I'll have to wait a little longer and buy a decent computer.

Do you guys think I will enjoy these games as much as I did GPL ??
Loved that one ( especially racing online on vroc in the gold silver and
bronce races :))

Any of you using the Logitech Driving Force Pro with these games ??

Tommy

http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?showTechData=tr...

Motherboard:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=GHER01&
 69 euros (if you get a used ATI 9800XT)
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=GHIG01&
 75 euros (if you get a PCIe video card)

Case:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=TQXH46&
20 euros

Power supply:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=TN4V02&
49 euros

DVD writer:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=CEAN42&so...
44 euros

Memory:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=I9ID25
2x = 90 euros

Video card (PCIe X800):
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=JAXS30&so...
179 euros

CPU:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=HHDA12&
189 euros (incl retail heatsink)

Hard drive:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/shop/productDetails.html?artno=A7BW02&
65 euros

That comes to:
711 euros with the graphics card above
526 euros with the AsRock mb and no video card - you could probably get
a used 9800 Pro or XT for less than 70 euros, easy (then upgrade to
PCIe in future).

Can you swing that?  Missing out on those 3 sims would be a damn shame
:).

Now that's just from that one vendor - you could probably find lower
prices for any one of those items.

I just love spending other people's money - I made a DVD of FRAPS
replays from GTL for a guy a work - I've got him drooling over a system
upgrade now too :).

Kendt

  I'm sure there are workable onboard solutions,  but I am old school.  
THe chances problems always seems greater with onboard than using a good
quality soundcard, so I will just say,  that by NEVER I mean it will save
grief in the long run.  My son runs an Emachine cheapo system with onboard
sound but a better vidcard than I have.
Dave Henrie

POST IT  (the vid) hehheee

In my experience, Sound Blaster cards have given people a lot more grief
over the years than nForce solutions.  Having said that, generally nforce
chips use about 5% CPU in games (normal stereo) and SB Audigy 2 etc. only
use about 2%.  Whether that's noticeable is debatable but I guess every bit
helps.