rec.autos.simulators

> >      Did you read about what these patches fixed? Most reports say B-17
> >code  is so incredibly sloppy and bloated that even 1 ghz CPU's and GForce
> >2's have a hard time running it. The GUNSHIP! patch took the flight model
> >from horrendous to the merely terrible while touching none of the other
> >flaws.

> I have B17-2. It does require a decent machine, but it runs ok on my

> unfortunately, but it has no major bugs (yes I did have a copy of
> Gunship! and Squad Leader). That's my point here. All the games
> mentioned as not being supported with patches are in fact being/was
> supported with patches. Choice in design are a completely different
> subject.

> Not confused -

> I'm saying that Papyrus would / should do its best to "fix up" N4, cause
if
> they don't, it's possibly over for them.

> Hasbro, while not the developer, decided to pull the plug on Gunship, a
> remarkably selfish move, developed by Microprose - and Microprose has
plenty of
> other stuff to fall back on...

> I'm saying that Papyrus would / should do its best to "fix up" N4, cause
if
> they don't, it's possibly over for them.

>No major bugs in Gunship! ?

>1 word: Waypoints.

> >No major bugs in Gunship! ?

> >1 word: Waypoints.

> Again, that's a design decision and not a bug. Waypoints work, you
> just have to know how to make them work. BTW, I didn't like Gunship!
> and I don't think much of Hasbro either. Just setting the facts
> straight.

>No, the waypoints did not work.

>A waypoint is a fixed waypoint, always and forever.

>If you're passing waypoint 1, the next waypoint shouldn't becom #1. Yet,
>that's what happens. That's not a design decision, just poor
>programming.

>      Yours and others here are the expressions of faith that I mentioned
in
> the original post. If your comment on Hasbro's financial well being is
> saying that there are instances where a company might view a certain set
of
> circumstances and then decide it more profitable to dump faulty software
on
> an  unsuspecting market then immediately abandon that software instead of
> fixing it I agree completely. But you seem to be implying that it is
> impossible for Papy to find itself in such a set of cricumstances or to
make
> such a decision. Here I disagree.
>      You are correct when you say "Hasbro's financial well being doesn't
> depend on stuff like Gunship!" but remember that it is equally true that
> Sierra's financial well being doesn't depend on stuff like NASCAR 4.
However
> strong the reputation of Papy it is certainly no stronger than the
> reputation Microprose once enjoyed.
>      You may have faith and that faith may eventually be rewarded but I
> prefer to operate on what is proven to exist. What exists now is a flawed
> NASCAR 4 and a totally silent Sierra/Papy. Those who bought Gunship! and
had
> faith in Hasbro/Microprose may see certain uncomfortable similarities. For
> as long as Sierra /Papy choose to remain silent; for that long will the
> safest course be to assume that there will be no patch and the N4 we have
> now is all we are ever going to get. Those who are willing to accept N4 as
> it is now may do so with my complete blessing. Those who cannot accept N4
as
> it is now may return it for a refund with my complete blessing. If
> Sierra/Papy dont fix N4 everyone is happy. If Sierra/Papy do fix N4 those
> who returned it can buy it once again and apply the fix and everyone is
> still happy. Those who cannot accept N4 as it is now but keeps it in the
> hope of some future fix may find the long term relationship they hoped for
> is just a one-night-stand. So far the boy friend is not returning our
calls.

> Papyrus is making Tribes 2?

> He is confused by comparing Hasbro and Papyrus' roles, but atleast read
what
> he wrote.

> > ROFL only title they have? You must not be a Sierra fan at all then.
They
> > have a number of games that are very good and I am currently waiting on
> one,
> > just like we had to wait on N4. By that I mean, Tribes 2. They also have
> > other games that may not appeal to you, however they appeal to other
> groups.

> > Peter Walker
> > Bagus51
> > http://www.typ-group.com

> > > the difference is,

> > > Hasbro's financial well being doesn't depend on stuff like Gunship!
> (which
> > I'll
> > > go on record as saying easily had the best terrain graphics in a helo
> sim
> > to
> > > date), whereas Papy's livelihood very much depends on N4, which may as
> > well be
> > > the only title they have.

> > > >      While I love the game there are two things that are getting
real
> > old
> > > > real quick. The first being the often occurring apparently causeless
> and
> > > > totally unpredictable announcement "Cannot load track, weekend
> canceled"
> > .
> > > > This seems to be based purely on what mood the game is in. Sometimes
> it
> > will
> > > > start at the beginning of a session, sometimes the middle, sometimes
> the
> > > > end. Sometimes "this" track, sometimes "that" track, sometimes EVERY
> > track.
> > > > Sometimes a simple reselection will clear it up, sometimes nothing
> will,
> > not
> > > > even a cold reboot. "Weekend canceled" indeed.
> > > >     Needless to say, this is maddening but I could put up this and
> other
> > > > faults for a while if I knew a patch was coming but then we run into
> the
> > > > second thing that is getting old quickly.
> > > > Based on what is visible from Sierra and Papy the prospect of a
patch
> > seems
> > > > dicey at best. While there
> > > > are a great many here that seem to have faith that one is indeed in
> the
> > > > works I fail to see what they base that faith on since both Sierra
and
> > Papy
> > > > have been totally silent not only on the subject of a patch but on
any
> > > > subject at all. I have searched the web but except for a couple of
> > > > non-updated, completely non-responding web sites there is no
evidence
> > that
> > > > either Sierra or Papy even exist. This is not comforting.
> > > >     While it is true N4 has been selling very well it is equally
true
> > that
> > > > other companies have totally abandoned new but buggy games that have
> > sold as
> > > > well or better. Those here who are also into Flight sims have seen
> this
> > from
> > > > Hasbro regarding Squad Leader, B-17 2, and Gunship! to name a few.
> These
> > are
> > > > names of sims as famous in the military sim community as NASCAR is
in
> > online
> > > > racing. Hasbro used that fame to quickly sell many copies of very
> flawed
> > > > sims then abruptly cut off all support for the games within weeks of
> > > > release. Papy's and Sierra's release of a faulty game under a famous
> > name
> > > > followed by an apparent refusal to say anything beyond "ORDER
NOW!!!"
> is
> > so
> > > > completely similar to the behavior of Hasbro that it is easier to
> > believe
> > > > Sierra and Papy intend to abandon NASCAR 4 then it is to believe
that
> > they
> > > > intend to fix it. Unless and until either Sierra or Papy show
> themselves
> > the
> > > > safest course seems to be to assume that what we have is all we are
> ever
> > > > going to get and then, based on that assumption, either keep N4
> "as-is"
> > or
> > > > return it.

> >No, the waypoints did not work.

> >A waypoint is a fixed waypoint, always and forever.

> >If you're passing waypoint 1, the next waypoint shouldn't becom #1. Yet,
> >that's what happens. That's not a design decision, just poor
> >programming.

> You are always headed to waypoint one in Gunship! There was a certain
> keyboard combo to change to the next waypoint. It was a ***design,
> but it was a design decision and nothing else.

> Name one other title where the waypoints move.

> How do you find you way back to the base?

>Name one other title where the waypoints move.

>How do you find you way back to the base?

> >Name one other title where the waypoints move.

> >How do you find you way back to the base?

> Cycle the waypoints til you hit the last one.

> > Not confused -

> > I'm saying that Papyrus would / should do its best to "fix up" N4, cause
> if
> > they don't, it's possibly over for them.

> > Hasbro, while not the developer, decided to pull the plug on Gunship, a
> > remarkably selfish move, developed by Microprose - and Microprose has
> plenty of
> > other stuff to fall back on...
>    Really?  Have you seen any Microprose products lately?  After Hasbro
> pulled the
> plug on those titles, they also...if I remember correctly, closed
> Microprose.
> dave henrie

> try this.. pretty interesting, no?

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/