rec.autos.simulators

Anyone else having terrible problems with the AI in N2?  Quick
example,  Aprox 30 laps into a race at Atlanta, and a yellow comes
out.  I get pushed to the end of the pack avoiding the wreck.  First
yellow lap no one pits.  Being at the end, I figure I'll pit on the
2nd yellow lap and just change the right side tires.  So I do that,
and we are all on the final yellow lap, I hear the "green flag green
flag" then "leader is pitting".   The friggin rest of the pack
decided to pit when it went GREEN!   Also I've been wrecked countless
times by cars following the line way to closely.  (usually turn 1 at
Alanta)  Its almost as though they don't "know" you are there.
Sometimes on green restarts I hear the "leader is pitting" and it
looks like the AI cars are faking a pit.  (usually the 1st 5 or 6 cars
at the lead)  They start into the pits, and at the last second come
back out slowing the whole pack down.  
Am I the ONLY one seeing this?  (I can't believe that?)  Also what
happened to double file restarts?  I've even tried reinstall the game,
cause I can't believe the AI is this bad.  Any ideas?  I'm ready to
return my copy to EB. :(

Andy
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ridger
Kali/Nascar/***
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Barry Clay

Another problem occurs at the start of the race when the green drops
the AI decides to slow to about 130mph or so in the middle of turn one
sending me into either "feast or famine" as its either a 15 place jump
in the standings or my car totalled into the wall.

Yet another not as important but very annoying "bug" is when I exit
the pits under yellow and there's not even any cars in sight but my
spotter repeatedly yells at me to pass so and so or go low go high,
ect... I even tried doing as I was being told finally and was quick to
get black-flagged for passing under yellow.

I hope these problems are not overlooked and will be corrected with a
patch. I am concerned with all the hype on NRL and multiplayer that
possibly the AI "bugs" will not be given much of a priority. For the
people who may not be able to afford the NRL or have the resources to
find others to race online, PLEASE Sierra/Papyrus, Take a good look at
the AI "bugs" being reported and include a fix in an upcoming patch if
possible.

With a little tweaking here and there, this sim can be top rate!

Ron

Ed

I agree with all the statements in this thread.  I had not raced too much -
so I wanted to spend a weekend racing at a couple of tracks.  I agree - the
AI is a problem.  At Dover, the cars do exactly all the things suggested in
this thread.  They slow to a crawl in the first turn after the restart -
and yes - I flattened the 87 car.  Then while trying to get around some of
the back markers - I continually have to back off because they go high in
the turn and then dive down while I stick my nose under to get a run on the
straightaway.  I have two problems with this.  1 - they need a spotter,  2
- a real stock car could not dive down the way they do without getting
sideways - so this is unpredictable and unrealistic behavior.  Next problem
- after losing a lap while getting into a wreck I am racing with the
Kellogs and Skoal Bandit cars.  These guys are trading position a lot and
are running between 120 and 145 through the turns.  I can't get into a
groove at all - because I am almost running into the back of them every
couple of turns.  I am sure that this is an attempt to fix a problem
reported in NASCAR Racing 1 that the cars run like robots - however, real
drivers also stick to the racing groove and run consistent laps.  I really
enjoyed drafting behind a group of quick race cars in NASCAR 1 - but this
is impossible in N2.  I want to race at some other tracks - try some LP
file changes and then I will propose some solutions to Papyrus, as well as
send my LP files if they help.

I haven't seend the pit problems yet - but then again I don't have time to
run real long races without the save option (nice dig - eh?).

ps.  Keep constructive feedback like this coming - and keep the flaming
out.

/THansen

I agree with your assessment.  The only problem is - the AI cars will swirv
back into the groove when they go high through the turns at Dover.  It is
almost impossible to predict when they will do this and totally impossible
to back off in time to avoid the collision.  A real stock car that has
drifted high does not perform an amazing left turn back into the groove
coming off the corner.  Also, I find that the cars drift high too much.  I
have been unable to follow a group of "fast" AI cars around Dover.  They
are all over the place.  I would like to see a model where AI cars of equal
speed will draft with each other.  I certainly would like to draft with a
group of quick cars.  This was also a problem at Bristol in NASCAR 1.  I
was able to fix the LP files and make Bristol raceable.  I will attempt the
same at Dover and see what I get.  I do like the fact that the AI cars
don't try and avoid me - this is cool.  In fact - when I am running off the
pace at Dover - even just a little.  I get cars passing on both sides.
This is nice - since in NASCAR Racing 1 I can hold up a bunch of fast cars
with ease - they will never try to dive under me.

/THansen

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Doug Greer

:
: I think there is a bug at Atlanta that causes the AI cars to wait for
: the green flag lap to pit, hopefully this will be changed soon!
: However, as to AI cars wrecking us, I'm not sure this is a bug. I've had
: it happen to me many times as well, but I think it is the result of the
: AI being more aggressive and not giving the ridiculous amount of room
: that theu did in N1.
: Example: if a car is passing me on the inside and as we exit the turn he
: has all but his rear third by me, he will "shut the door" and come all
: the way out to the wall. If I stay on the gas we will wreck. This may
: seem inappropriate, or a bug, but the fact is, I, having been passed, am
: expected to back off. If I do, we don't wreck.
: In N1, the AI cars could be depended on to avoid us, the human drivers.
: We could get away with all sorts of outrageous aggresiveness and they
: would get out of the way.
: In N2 this is definitly NOT the case. We have to avoid the AI cars,
: especially when they have establlished the line (ie gotten most of the
: way passed us). If I am careful of them, they are usually careful of me.
: I don't believe this is a bug. I believe it is realistic to the way real
: NASCAR drivers drive. They don't just move over and give you room to
: pass. You have to take your time and wait for the right moment. Set them
: up for a pass.
: I'd like to hear others opinions of this.
:

This certainly seems to be the case for N2.  When an AI car is
successfully making a pass on the inside their momentum is taking them
up to the wall.  It is the driver being passed who must make the
judgement call and let off the gas a bit.  The same goes for AI cars
making a pass on the outside going into a corner.  If they already have
their nose past yours, better let them have the line.

I've also noticed that most "back markers" give a little bit more when
you come up on them than those on the lead lap.

My only gripe about the AI is that they seem to have the "wind" taken
out of them once you pass them.  Even if I've had a hard time making a
pass they seem to give up too easily after the pass.  But them maybe I
caused them to use up their tires holding their line?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I'm thinking you might be right on this one.  I know at times, they
have let me take the line.  I never bothered to "see" where they were
in the mirrors though.   (which is sometimes hard with the blind
spots)  
However, if they go high in a turn they sure seem to be able to come
low VERY quickly.  (which doesn't seem very realistic to me?)  I just
hope when Papyrus does fix the bugs, they don't hurt the AI any.
(i.e. make it less aggressive)

Andy
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ridger
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Yes!  I was thinking the same thing.  They do come low very quicky.
If they do go high, and you are there to take the line, they shouldn't
come low.    I'll bet that is where my problem is.  (or the AI's
problem) <G>
Well with the few other posts in this thread at least I know I'm not
alone.  Which means Papyrus will patch it sooner or later.  I'd rather
wait and have it done to the best of their ability, than get 2 or 3
patches.  (IMHO)
Thanks for the follow up posts, set my mind at ease. :-)

Andy
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ridger
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David Martin

Has anyone noticed, that if you pull out of your pit stall, and drive down pit
lane, and maybe stop to look at the pretty cars, if a car pulls out behind
you, he plows right into the back of you?!?!  That in my opinion needs to be
fixed, I don't recall that happening in NASCAR 1.

Regards,

Todd

This is true, Michael. I noticed this behavior during the beta and asked
Papyrus about it, and they said it's intentional. However, it didn't appear
to me that the backmarkers were quite so easy to move over for other AI
cars on the lead lap.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html