rec.autos.simulators

by **p.oxf..** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:27:14

Who knows what ISI has planned for the future? They may surprise us.
I'm sure they been pouring over iRacing since the early alpha days.
Their Racecast was a bust and didn't even make a stab at including a
ratings overlay. And, yes, IR claims state of the art Force Feedback,
physics and netcode. But it's the newest in a rapidly evolving
environment. You expect the bar to be raised. GTR2 was prettier than
rFactor. N2K3 had better physics than N4, etc. Yawn....

I suspect the handful of cars and tracks in iRacing are gonna get old
*really* fast. But I could be totally wrong. Haha.

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:32:55

> And it's suprising how someone can so entirely miss the point.

Well, you don't even have a point, right? Just whining...

>> Well, one is suprised how some people manage to start their browser.
>> Imagine, having to install the latest release of the mod they wanna
>> drive!

>> l8er
>> ronny

by **David Fisher's Left Testicl** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:17:51

Come on, admit it, the rFactor scene is a mess as far as just doing pick up
races goes. The driving standard is appallingly low. I had a race in the
Renault Megane Trophy and just got continuously punted off because people
knew they could get away with hitting you as you turn into the corner.

>> And it's suprising how someone can so entirely miss the point.

> Well, you don't even have a point, right? Just whining...

>>> Well, one is suprised how some people manage to start their browser.
>>> Imagine, having to install the latest release of the mod they wanna
>>> drive!

>>> l8er
>>> ronny

by **David Fisher's Left Testicl** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:21:05

That paragraph brilliantly describes where rFactor is at the moment.

- Show quoted text -

> With iRacing I now have a new option. I can spend my simracing time in a
> controlled environment, I can spend it with equally paced racers, but my
> big question is: Does my limited simracing time slot allow me to progress,
> rank higher, and generally feel that the time I put in is well spent? I
> suspect that iRacing have come up with a market model much in the mould of
> WoW, Everquest etc; i.e. trying to exploit the ***iveness of a game,
> with a tendency to favour those ready to put in 3 hours + pr day. I am not
> talking about "favour" in terms of money, I am talking about "favour" in
> terms of progress, schedules, season lengths etc.

> I know for sure that I won't fall into the "***iveness" aspect, due to
> lack of time, and I am highly uncertain about the "time well spent"
> aspect.

> I am sure iRacing will offer a splendid alternative to rFactor and
> open-source racing, but I am not so sure it will fit every bill out there,
> and I am kind of thinking that the optimum racingsim situation would be
> if:
> 1) The sim was open for leagues, pick-up racers and official rank/security
> rating events alike
> 2) Open standards for track and car modelling, and easy ways of upgrading
> with tracks, cars etc
> 3) Possibility to set up public servers with a custom degree of racing
> rule enforcement to the point where the idiots would be rejected and
> shunned after that

> If rFactor had efficient ways of enforcing racing rules, it would fit *my*
> bill perfectly, and there would be less of a need to look elsewhere.

> ---A---

>> The NDA has been lifted for iRacing.

>> And as I said in the subject, iRacing is crack in a box. It's the
>> most
>> ***ing thing a simracer will get since the end of the NROS. It's
>> that
>> amazing. Sure it's not finished yet, but it will open in less than a
>> month
>> so you guys better start preparing yourself if you ever want to start
>> simracing again.

>> Let me rephrase this : iRacing is so good (physics, track modelling,
>> multi
>> racing experience) that it made me come back from retirement, made me
>> buy a
>> 1500$ PC and a G25 wheel.

>> ***es better prepare yourself, simracing is back.

by **David Fisher's Left Testicl** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:30:15

The most popular rFactor mod as far as online pick-up races go, is the the
Renault Megane. And those severs switch through a small amount of the oldest
tracks.

The key to iR is enforcement of driving standards. If people can't grasp
that then they are probably part of the problem in rFactor.

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:07:48

Well, that's about as surprising as "the world is not flat"...

Go to any server of any online game that is moddable (FPS, flight or
racing sim) -> big chance you don't have the right level, area or track.
It's just the silly bashing of rF for being what it is. If you don't like
it, get LfS or iRacing.

BTW, who wants to race total strangers in a pick up race anyway? There's only
a 1% chance to have a race without a crash kiddie anyway.

l8er
ronny

>>> And it's suprising how someone can so entirely miss the point.

>> Well, you don't even have a point, right? Just whining...

>>>> Well, one is suprised how some people manage to start their browser.
>>>> Imagine, having to install the latest release of the mod they wanna
>>>> drive!

>>>> l8er
>>>> ronny

by **Larr** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:15:28

Really, ISI hasn't suprised me at all. I've never seen any major interface
or engine changes that really get me e***d over the years. Seems to be
the same thing over and over with just a few tweaks. Maybe.

But, that's just me. For those that enjoy ISI based SIMS more power to you!
Have fun :)

-Larry

by **btgos** » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:17:24

You think the odds are that high?

by **David Fisher's Left Testicl** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 01:05:17

>> Come on, admit it, the rFactor scene is a mess as far as just doing pick
>> up races goes. The driving standard is appallingly low. I had a race in
>> the Renault Megane Trophy and just got continuously punted off because
>> people knew they could get away with hitting you as you turn into the
>> corner.

> Well, that's about as surprising as "the world is not flat"...

> Go to any server of any online game that is moddable (FPS, flight or
> racing sim) -> big chance you don't have the right level, area or track.
> It's just the silly bashing of rF for being what it is. If you don't like
> it, get LfS or iRacing.

> BTW, who wants to race total strangers in a pick up race anyway?

Well, lots of people who don't have time to schedule for proper league
racing. It's rather stupid of you to pose that question! Shows your lack of
empathy with the greater community.

The fact is that iRacing is worth the extra money, for me, over rFactor. And
looking at the whining surrounding the new Historic GT mod and the overall
***poor driving standards, I don't really want to be part of the online
rFactor community any more. Also, people like you put me off.

by **Tony** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:41:22

> But it's the newest in a rapidly evolving
> environment. You expect the bar to be raised. GTR2 was prettier than
> rFactor. N2K3 had better physics than N4, etc. Yawn....

I don't believe it is a rapidly evolving environment which is what has
paved the way for iRacing to be worthy of the investment.

Only time will tell but GPL managed for a pretty long time with just one
series and minor variants within that.

Cheers
Tony

by **p.oxf..** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:58:35

True, but GPL did provide the charms of mixed class racing for many.

I hope iRacing succeeds. The concept is innovative and will profit
from Kaemmer's sim creating experiences and his insider status status
within the world of real motor racing. Not to mention John Henry's
cash infusion. And who knows what IR will resemble 6 months from now?

But watch out. RFactor will surely come up with a renamed, vastly
revamped variation on Racecast with ratings and rankings. Along with
physics, graphics and force feedback enhancements. Laser scanned
tracks may prove beyond their reach, however. Unless Gjon hooks up
with an heiress.

by **p.oxf..** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:01:02

On reconsideration, laser scanning the tracks may not be the
roadblock. Rather acquiring the licenses.

by **0-0-0-0-** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:28

You should of course consider that there were NO real alternatives to GPL -
it was the "only" option really at the time, so referencing it in this
discussion is somewhat moot. -- As soon as rFactor hit the market... GPL
member numbers started to decline. If GTR had not had the classic
multiplaer flaws that it did... I wonder how many would have moved from GPL
to GTR? The terrible online code was the main reason that there was not a
mass exodus to it from GPL. (that and of course no F1 cars!)

I'm all for iRacing and for the pay-people that will be a part of it. But,
why do some feel they have to disrespect rFactor to make iRacing "sound
good"? It doesn't make sense.

If iRacing is that good..... then people will move to it on their own...
they won't need to be told the "problems" "shortcomings" or percieved
"disillusionments" of rF.

rFactor is currently the BEST of the BEST. Number ONE league based sim.

When iRacing surpasses the user base of rFactor... then go ahead and say so.
Meantime.... I personally would appreciate less rFactor belittling as it is
not fair nor is it needed.

No-one comes here everday to point out that iRacing has no driver swaps, no
pitstops, no proper flags, etc. etc.
There is no need for bashing either one. Fair???

0-0-0-0-0-0

>> But it's the newest in a rapidly evolving
>> environment. You expect the bar to be raised. GTR2 was prettier than
>> rFactor. N2K3 had better physics than N4, etc. Yawn....

> I don't believe it is a rapidly evolving environment which is what has
> paved the way for iRacing to be worthy of the investment.

>> I suspect the handful of cars and tracks in iRacing are gonna get old
>> *really* fast. But I could be totally wrong. Haha.

> Only time will tell but GPL managed for a pretty long time with just one
> series and minor variants within that.

> Cheers
> Tony

by **Tony** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:01:35

> No-one comes here everday to point out that iRacing has no driver swaps, no
> pitstops, no proper flags, etc. etc.
> There is no need for bashing either one. Fair???

Rewind to 2005 and I was enthusiastic about rFactor as it finally seemed
to represent a significant step forward with the ISI engine that had
evolved since f1 2000. Indeed rFactor and GT Legends were the sims that
finally eclipsed GPL for me.

My reference to slow progress was that GPL was *way* overdue for being
replaced. The string of blockbuster releases in the 90s had come to an
end as Papyrus was restricted to Nascar titles and then no more and
Crammond had seemingly lost his way.

ISI and the small studios have had the market uncontested with a large
well funded developer and it has been steady progress. here we are in
mid 2008 and rFactor has see a few patches. GTR2 and RACE have some nice
weather features but the underlying sim engine is still much the same.
It has been steady evolution with each release. No problem with that but
not the dynamic rapid evolution the poster I responded to suggested.

It is selfish and I do respect the work ISI and Simbin have done along
with the modders with limited resources, but I do want more from sim
racing. Economics with publishers seemed to make that unlikely until
John Henry stumped up the cash to produce a higher budget sim.

If it belittles the likes of rFactor to say we needed iRacing then it is
unintended but to move sim racing forward I believe we do. The smaller
outfits have had a free go for long enough to become well enough
established to position themselves to take a slice by differentiating by
price and approach (e.g. modding capability) so I don't think iRacing is
going to come along and squash them.

Outside of small leagues I don't think sim racing was really going
anywhere, comparing sales of modern titles with those of the mid
nineties sim racing is even more niche now. It needs impetus and iRacing
could just provide that.

I am a fan of sim racing and just want to get better and better sim
racing experiences be it software or hardware developments.

Cheers
Tony

by **0-0-0-0-** » Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:23:06

Very well written and very clear and concise -:)- Good read.

Now although I agree with your points... if price was not an issue; I'd be
just stepping out of my motion platform sim-racer after just giving iRacing
a good going over (say a demo or a 1 month membership).

Money being an issue to me, and to most perhaps, it is well we have the
likes of both rF - so richly supported by the generous modders - and also
iRacing - generously supported by the rich (lol - I just couldn't resist the
smile) so we can EACH enjoy the best available sim adn equipment at each of
our 'fair market values'.

Enjoy... and I always look forward to news of how things are going "over
there" ;)

0-0-0-0-0

>> No-one comes here everday to point out that iRacing has no driver swaps,
>> no pitstops, no proper flags, etc. etc.
>> There is no need for bashing either one. Fair???

> Rewind to 2005 and I was enthusiastic about rFactor as it finally seemed
> to represent a significant step forward with the ISI engine that had
> evolved since f1 2000. Indeed rFactor and GT Legends were the sims that
> finally eclipsed GPL for me.

> My reference to slow progress was that GPL was *way* overdue for being
> replaced. The string of blockbuster releases in the 90s had come to an end
> as Papyrus was restricted to Nascar titles and then no more and Crammond
> had seemingly lost his way.

> ISI and the small studios have had the market uncontested with a large
> well funded developer and it has been steady progress. here we are in mid
> 2008 and rFactor has see a few patches. GTR2 and RACE have some nice
> weather features but the underlying sim engine is still much the same. It
> has been steady evolution with each release. No problem with that but not
> the dynamic rapid evolution the poster I responded to suggested.

> It is selfish and I do respect the work ISI and Simbin have done along
> with the modders with limited resources, but I do want more from sim
> racing. Economics with publishers seemed to make that unlikely until John
> Henry stumped up the cash to produce a higher budget sim.

> If it belittles the likes of rFactor to say we needed iRacing then it is
> unintended but to move sim racing forward I believe we do. The smaller
> outfits have had a free go for long enough to become well enough
> established to position themselves to take a slice by differentiating by
> price and approach (e.g. modding capability) so I don't think iRacing is
> going to come along and squash them.

> Outside of small leagues I don't think sim racing was really going
> anywhere, comparing sales of modern titles with those of the mid nineties
> sim racing is even more niche now. It needs impetus and iRacing could just
> provide that.

> I am a fan of sim racing and just want to get better and better sim racing
> experiences be it software or hardware developments.

> Cheers
> Tony

rec.autos.simulators

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box

iRacing = crack in a box