rec.autos.simulators

iRacing = crack in a box

Larr

iRacing = crack in a box

by Larr » Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:05:32

Agreed on the rFactor thing...

As for the invites, we are keeping them on their toes with "when" questions.
Trust me :)

-Larry



btgos

iRacing = crack in a box

by btgos » Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:49:16

This is not really expensive.

World of Warcraft... the real "crack" of the intertubes... is $155 US
a year (without tax) if purchased at the lowest bulk rate.
iRacing is totally inline with this cost, actually since you have to
add the cost of the box to WoW ( around $50 US ), that first year is
more expensive, where as with iRacing the second year could be less
expensive.

That being said I still do not think the iRacing price model will
work. I am going to be very happy with just the Legend car, and the
basic tracks for a very long time. I know I will only add two other
classes, and maybe 3-4 tracks at most. So they will not be getting a
random boost of money from me when something new comes out. I think
you will have many people who will fall into this type of category.
(many being relative to the actual numbers who use this service) So I
wonder if the 50 to 100 thousand people who will pay to play will be
enough.

But it should be fun to watch at least.

Jack

iRacing = crack in a box

by Jack » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:56:37


> This is not really expensive.

> World of Warcraft... the real "crack" of the intertubes... is $155 US
> a year (without tax) if purchased at the lowest bulk rate.
> iRacing is totally inline with this cost, actually since you have to
> add the cost of the box to WoW ( around $50 US ), that first year is
> more expensive, where as with iRacing the second year could be less
> expensive.

> That being said I still do not think the iRacing price model will
> work. I am going to be very happy with just the Legend car, and the
> basic tracks for a very long time. I know I will only add two other
> classes, and maybe 3-4 tracks at most. So they will not be getting a
> random boost of money from me when something new comes out. I think
> you will have many people who will fall into this type of category.
> (many being relative to the actual numbers who use this service) So I
> wonder if the 50 to 100 thousand people who will pay to play will be
> enough.

> But it should be fun to watch at least.


David Fisher's Left Testicl

iRacing = crack in a box

by David Fisher's Left Testicl » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:05:15




>> So just to be clear on your view Larry....

> hmmm....

>> You're saying that rFactor with ALL it's FREE mod content is a "mess"

> Yep.  Can't keep up with it, it's utterly fragmented, completely out of
> control, and something I personally don't have the time to deal with.

>> but as long as you have to PAY for new stuff -- then it's "not_that_bad".

> No, it's not.  Not when it's quality materials managed in a quality
> manner. Not a screwed up free-for-all like rFactor is.

>> LOL - kind of funny when you look at it that way isn't it !?!

> I find nothing funny about the current rFactor mess.

> I have NO problem with rFactor (other than I don't much care for ISI
> engine based sims).  It's the uncontrolled mess that the whole tracks,
> cars, mods thing has become.  Every time I've EVER tried to join a race I
> either didn't have the right Mod, track, version of track or mod, or
> whatever.  I spent more time trying to keep up with the changes than
> racing.

> At least in iRacing if something changes, you get an "Update Required"
> flag and you mash a button to update.  And EVERONE has to do it so
> everyone is on the same page.

> If rFactor would incorporate something like that, 90% of my gripes with
> rFactor would go away.

Spot on, 100% right, Larry. rFactor is good if you want to run in a league,
but if you just want to grab a quick bit if on-line racing fun, it's a
disaster.
Mario Petrinovic

iRacing = crack in a box

by Mario Petrinovic » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:27:21

Jack:

> btgoss:
>> This is not really expensive.

>> World of Warcraft... the real "crack" of the intertubes... is $155 US
>> a year (without tax) if purchased at the lowest bulk rate.
>> iRacing is totally inline with this cost, actually since you have to
>> add the cost of the box to WoW ( around $50 US ), that first year is
>> more expensive, where as with iRacing the second year could be less
>> expensive.

>> That being said I still do not think the iRacing price model will
>> work. I am going to be very happy with just the Legend car, and the
>> basic tracks for a very long time. I know I will only add two other
>> classes, and maybe 3-4 tracks at most. So they will not be getting a
>> random boost of money from me when something new comes out. I think
>> you will have many people who will fall into this type of category.
>> (many being relative to the actual numbers who use this service) So I
>> wonder if the 50 to 100 thousand people who will pay to play will be
>> enough.

>> But it should be fun to watch at least.



        It just started, few minutes ago. There were 1000 beta testers, and
supposedly they now work with 7000 invitees. -- Mario Petrinovich
btgos

iRacing = crack in a box

by btgos » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:48:33



> > This is not really expensive.

> > World of Warcraft... the real "crack" of the intertubes... is $155 US
> > a year (without tax) if purchased at the lowest bulk rate.
> > iRacing is totally inline with this cost, actually since you have to
> > add the cost of the box to WoW ( around $50 US ), that first year is
> > more expensive, where as with iRacing the second year could be less
> > expensive.

> > That being said I still do not think the iRacing price model will
> > work. I am going to be very happy with just the Legend car, and the
> > basic tracks for a very long time. I know I will only add two other
> > classes, and maybe 3-4 tracks at most. So they will not be getting a
> > random boost of money from me when something new comes out. I think
> > you will have many people who will fall into this type of category.
> > (many being relative to the actual numbers who use this service) So I
> > wonder if the 50 to 100 thousand people who will pay to play will be
> > enough.

> > But it should be fun to watch at least.



It can't work with those few people paying to play. I think the number
has to be at least 50K to keep it alive. And I am making that
statement based on Eve online having around 70K. So I would think 50K
to 100K range is a fair number for something that is never going to be
a mainstream type of experience. Now if they could get a Nascar
License AND CART/IRL/Open Wheel license... then who knows... but right
now I think they are hoping for at least 50K.
Larr

iRacing = crack in a box

by Larr » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:32:19

Lets not forget, McDonalds started with only 1 being served.

Now, they can't fit the number on the sign any more :)

-Larry


It can't work with those few people paying to play. I think the number
has to be at least 50K to keep it alive. And I am making that
statement based on Eve online having around 70K. So I would think 50K
to 100K range is a fair number for something that is never going to be
a mainstream type of experience. Now if they could get a Nascar
License AND CART/IRL/Open Wheel license... then who knows... but right
now I think they are hoping for at least 50K.

0-0-0-0-

iRacing = crack in a box

by 0-0-0-0- » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:49:15

Thanks Larry

I do see your point and I do understand that it can be daunting for non-savy
PC users to manage the mods, tracks, etc.

Personally I would have liked to see some sort of "standards" released with
the base rFactor sim that laid out some kind of mandated format for all
mods/tracks.   It would have made things easier if "all" mods-tracks were to
contain a standard install that everyone could do "eyes-closed" so to speak.
It would have been great if there was ONE central mod-track depository
(rfactorcentral.com does come very close though).  I cannot disagree with
you and these points.

Having said that though.... iRacing is a controlled "league" if you will.
Anyone running rFactor in a (controlled) league should have almost zero
problems getting going or locating the necessary mod/tracks.
They will also get a nicely worded "updates required" message that some
league admin has graciously written out.  It's not iRacing-automatic, but it
works just fine.

The real problems you are talking about is with "pick-up racing" which I
personally don't think rF was ever really made for.

JMHO

0-0-0-0-0-0




>> So just to be clear on your view Larry....

> hmmm....

>> You're saying that rFactor with ALL it's FREE mod content is a "mess"

> Yep.  Can't keep up with it, it's utterly fragmented, completely out of
> control, and something I personally don't have the time to deal with.

>> but as long as you have to PAY for new stuff -- then it's "not_that_bad".

> No, it's not.  Not when it's quality materials managed in a quality
> manner. Not a screwed up free-for-all like rFactor is.

>> LOL - kind of funny when you look at it that way isn't it !?!

> I find nothing funny about the current rFactor mess.

> I have NO problem with rFactor (other than I don't much care for ISI
> engine based sims).  It's the uncontrolled mess that the whole tracks,
> cars, mods thing has become.  Every time I've EVER tried to join a race I
> either didn't have the right Mod, track, version of track or mod, or
> whatever.  I spent more time trying to keep up with the changes than
> racing.

> At least in iRacing if something changes, you get an "Update Required"
> flag and you mash a button to update.  And EVERONE has to do it so
> everyone is on the same page.

> If rFactor would incorporate something like that, 90% of my gripes with
> rFactor would go away.

Boofhea

iRacing = crack in a box

by Boofhea » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:17:45


Are you saying that rFactor is better than iRacing!!

Interesting

Boofhea

iRacing = crack in a box

by Boofhea » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:24:59

Man, I hope your married because if your'e single life must be hell if you
can't even get yourself organised with rFactor.

Just grab the mods you want to use and regularly check rFactorcentral for
updates.

How complicated is that.

0-0-0-0-

iRacing = crack in a box

by 0-0-0-0- » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:11:46

NO !

He's saying that iRacing is for "artsy-fartsy" people....
and rFactor is for everyone else.   LOL

( Easy Larry.... I am just making a pc-mac joke here! - no i-offense meant
;)




>> Or...

>> iRacing is the Mac, rFactor is the PC.

>> LOL

>> -Larry

> Are you saying that rFactor is better than iRacing!!

> Interesting

Asgeir Nesoe

iRacing = crack in a box

by Asgeir Nesoe » Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:21:36

As a casual simracer my problems are as follows:
1) I would like to spend 4(ish) hours pr week on sim racing
2) I would like to do as much quality racing as possible in my limited
simracing slot

I have a ton of simracing experience, respect fellow racers, have good
and consistent pace, love realism, but have limited time. I would guess
that there must be many thousands like me out there, so we represent a
substantial market group. And the same group of people, due to time
constraints, probably are at a point in life where they have more money
than time.

I have had one option, rFactor. The sim works great on my computer,
there are plenty of pick-up races to be found, I encounter great
sportsmanship and racing all the time, but I also encounter sabotage,
complete stupidity, total lack of ability and total lack of will to do
good. With this mix of ingredients comes the growing feeling of
"unfullfilledness", never to finish a race without having been taken out
thrice, etc, etc. I have nothing against rFactor, but I have a lot
against the wild diversity of users of it.

With iRacing I now have a new option. I can spend my simracing time in a
controlled environment, I can spend it with equally paced racers, but my
big question is: Does my limited simracing time slot allow me to
progress, rank higher, and generally feel that the time I put in is well
spent? I suspect that iRacing have come up with a market model much in
the mould of WoW, Everquest etc; i.e. trying to exploit the
***iveness of a game, with a tendency to favour those ready to put in
3 hours + pr day. I am not talking about "favour" in terms of money, I
am talking about "favour" in terms of progress, schedules, season
lengths etc.

I know for sure that I won't fall into the "***iveness" aspect, due
to lack of time, and I am highly uncertain about the "time well spent"
aspect.

I am sure iRacing will offer a splendid alternative to rFactor and
open-source racing, but I am not so sure it will fit every bill out
there, and I am kind of thinking that the optimum racingsim situation
would be if:
1) The sim was open for leagues, pick-up racers and official
rank/security rating events alike
2) Open standards for track and car modelling, and easy ways of
upgrading with tracks, cars etc
3) Possibility to set up public servers with a custom degree of racing
rule enforcement to the point where the idiots would be rejected and
shunned after that

If rFactor had efficient ways of enforcing racing rules, it would fit
*my* bill perfectly, and there would be less of a need to look elsewhere.

---A---


Ronald Stoeh

iRacing = crack in a box

by Ronald Stoeh » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:04:20


> Thanks Larry

> I do see your point and I do understand that it can be daunting for non-savy
> PC users to manage the mods, tracks, etc.

> Personally I would have liked to see some sort of "standards" released with
> the base rFactor sim that laid out some kind of mandated format for all
> mods/tracks.   It would have made things easier if "all" mods-tracks were to
> contain a standard install that everyone could do "eyes-closed" so to speak.
> It would have been great if there was ONE central mod-track depository
> (rfactorcentral.com does come very close though).  I cannot disagree with
> you and these points.

Well, one is suprised how some people manage to start their browser.
Imagine, having to install the latest release of the mod they wanna drive!

l8er
ronny

> Having said that though.... iRacing is a controlled "league" if you will.
> Anyone running rFactor in a (controlled) league should have almost zero
> problems getting going or locating the necessary mod/tracks.
> They will also get a nicely worded "updates required" message that some
> league admin has graciously written out.  It's not iRacing-automatic, but it
> works just fine.

> The real problems you are talking about is with "pick-up racing" which I
> personally don't think rF was ever really made for.

> JMHO

> 0-0-0-0-0-0





>>> So just to be clear on your view Larry....
>> hmmm....

>>> You're saying that rFactor with ALL it's FREE mod content is a "mess"
>> Yep.  Can't keep up with it, it's utterly fragmented, completely out of
>> control, and something I personally don't have the time to deal with.

>>> but as long as you have to PAY for new stuff -- then it's "not_that_bad".
>> No, it's not.  Not when it's quality materials managed in a quality
>> manner. Not a screwed up free-for-all like rFactor is.

>>> LOL - kind of funny when you look at it that way isn't it !?!
>> I find nothing funny about the current rFactor mess.

>> I have NO problem with rFactor (other than I don't much care for ISI
>> engine based sims).  It's the uncontrolled mess that the whole tracks,
>> cars, mods thing has become.  Every time I've EVER tried to join a race I
>> either didn't have the right Mod, track, version of track or mod, or
>> whatever.  I spent more time trying to keep up with the changes than
>> racing.

>> At least in iRacing if something changes, you get an "Update Required"
>> flag and you mash a button to update.  And EVERONE has to do it so
>> everyone is on the same page.

>> If rFactor would incorporate something like that, 90% of my gripes with
>> rFactor would go away.

Byron Forbe

iRacing = crack in a box

by Byron Forbe » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:33:05


    This post reminds me that the theory very rarely matches the real life
application particularly closely.

Larr

iRacing = crack in a box

by Larr » Sat, 28 Jun 2008 02:43:13

And it's suprising how someone can so entirely miss the point.



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