rec.autos.simulators

1)  Andretti admitted fault

2)  Said he didn't see Little Al

3)  No one here has tried to coronate Michael to, "Prince of Racing
Ettiquete."

Rick Boyd

Marc.

andretti wasn't alongside tracy when they hit because andretti was ***
the brakes trying to avoid hitting tracy..

Are you talking about when Vasser tried to pass Franchitti?  My friend asked
me the same question when I gave him my opinion on the Tracy-Andretti incident.
It just so happens that night I re-watched the race.  They were totally
different.

Vasser dove underneath Franchitti at the last moment hoping to outbrake him.
Probably had a little bit of a run as well, but he didn't begin to make
the pass until they got to the braking zone, or close to it.  Vasser
realized he couldn't pull it off and/or that Franchitti wasn't going to
give him room, and backed off.

This is a lot different than what Andretti did.  He was alongside Tracy
nearly the entire distance of the backstraight.  He wasn't making a last
minute attempt to pass into the corner, but attempting to complete a
pass he had not yet completed.  Plus, Tracy pushing him to the grass
caused Andretti to enter the turn at a completely different angle
probably negating the possibility of being able to back off enough to
avoid Tracy's car when Paul came down.

When a driver makes an attempt to pass in a braking zone, he always leaves
an escape route.  But, when a driver enters a turn side by side, or close
to it, that escape route is very small.  And sometimes when you realize
you need the escape route, it is too late -- and then it appears you hit
the other guy because you still tried desperately to back off and your front
hits his rear.  And then you really feel like a jerk, because you realized
you never should have backed off in the first place and just accept the
side by side smack that would have happened instead and would not have placed
blame on you.

Rus'L
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But he thought Mikey had backed off going into the turn.  

Scott,

Hold on the last veiw on accident from the incar shows Mike's front wheel
just behind Tracy's front.  Well by SCCA and most anyone elses rules that
means you have the right for room in the corner.  I think the rule actually
reads if you front wheel is ahead of the middle of chassis on the car you
are trying to overtake.  Tracy chopped him hard.  It really was a dumb move
on Tracy's part and cost him any points he would have gained in the race.

Dave

This is too easy. Rather than Rus having to prove that there is no rule, why
doesn't somebody just post this alleged rule?

Not being familiar with SCCA Club Racing, I was wondering what ovals they
race at?

two

As you saw these two protests disallowed, can't you tell us why?

Besides that, Rus simply said it was a rule of thumb, not a rule. That
doesn't mean the SCCA couldn't disallow such protests, does it?

I'm not a racer nor an expert on the subject, but it seems to me that if one
car is passing another car going into a turn on an oval, and the passing car
is ahead of the slower car going into the turn, then the slower car should
yield.

My two cents worth.

: If its not a written rule then why have drivers been DQ'ed for pulling the
: same dumb move as Tracy did in SCCA Club Racing. I have seen at least two
: protests disallowed due to this supposedly unwritten rule after the
: overtaking car got hammered and its front wheels were past the midpoint of
: the car being overtaken.  

You can still DQ someone for "dangerous driving."  That terminology is in
the rules.  If a driver is deemed to be performing "dangerous driving,"
then it meets the criteria.  If the opinion of the stewards is such that
they believe a driver was dangerous by attempting a pass that did not
get him alongside the other driver, and he is judged to be at fault, then
that is why they rule that way.

There are the following rules in the GCR: (paraphrasing since I don't know
the exact wording)

- it is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to perform a safe pass,

- it is the responsibility of the driver being overtaken to provide racing
room.

Note, all of that is up to intepretation.  That is why there are long
developed rules of thumb.  But, they are just that, rules of thumb.
It's still up to the individual case presented.

Rus'L
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Russell Jaslow     |         http://www.DeepThrottle.com/         |My employer

Spec Racer Ford #33|       http://www.DeepThrottle.com/Fun/       |to do with
Finger Lakes Region|     http://www.DeepThrottle.com/History/     |my drivel.

Rick Boyd

I will get out my GCR and start looking, but since you do not have one what
does that help.

Well the race at Gateway's road course for one also on Daytonas Road
Course.  both of these track incorporate the oval as part of the track.
Additionally it does not need to be an oval track for this rule to apply.

They were disallowed due to the driver being overtaken was in the wrong and
he lodged the protest.

Well That was my point if its a rule of thimb then why did these protests
get disallowed since the driver who hit the overtaking driver would have
been in the right.

As the overtaking driver you are repsonsible to make a safe pass.  You have
the line going into a corner if you are on the inside and you front wheels
are past the midpoint of the other car.

Dave

It would also be significant to know the details of the protests you cite.
Again, in my experience, SCCA SOM's, sitting as a first court, must decide
on the rules and the evidence.  All the evidence.  Have you provided all the
evidence heard by the protest court?

Aha, they don't race at ovals. I thought they must have, considering how you
compared Tracy's incident in the same sentence with SCCA Club Racing.

Oh gee, thanks for clarifying that. It doesn't seem you really know the details
of the protest or the alleged rule that was applied here.

The point is you didn't have a point. Your message implied that Rus was wrong,
that it must have been a rule.

O.K. Now back to the subject. Where is the SCCA rule?