steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
slide and the car straightened itself out...
This is counter correct...
Anyone else notice this?
I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
slide and the car straightened itself out...
This is counter correct...
Anyone else notice this?
> It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
> steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
> I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
> slide and the car straightened itself out...
> This is counter correct...
> Anyone else notice this?
You start to lose the rear in a slide. The slip angles of all four
wheels are increasing, you're losing traction at all four corners.
If you countersteer, you'd better move that wheel QUICK, because what
happens as soon as you atart to steer into the skid is a reduction in
slip angle at the front wheels, and more steering force. THe increased
steering force hastens the spin unless you steer further into the skid
(and quickly) to reduce the slip angle at the front wheels to zero.
On the other hand, if at the beginning of a slide you steer the "wrong"
way, you immediately increase the slip angles at the front wheels faster
than the rears are increasing, and the spin never fully develops.
Trips
> It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
> steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
> I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
> slide and the car straightened itself out...
> This is counter correct...
> Anyone else notice this?
Philster
Dave
When you "counter-steer" or opposite lock, you must also apply the
throttle to make the technique work. (Note: Full throttle will more than likely
cause a spin)
Marc.
If I steer into the slide in GPL, the car will straighten itself out and be
pointed straight on the track. Whereas If I counter steer the car in a
slide with power on, the car will always spin out and be pointed in the
opposite direction....
Counter intuitive...
> Marc.
> >It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
> >steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
> >I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
> >slide and the car straightened itself out...
> >This is counter correct...
> >Anyone else notice this?
When you say "counter-steer" do you mean steering left even though the car
is going round a right hand corner? A lot of people use "steer into the
slide" to mean the same thing! You seem to use them to mean opposite things.
- Michael
I can't really figure-out from your comments whether you disagree with any
of this...?? So I tried to make my point more clearly and with more detail.
I believe GPL reacts very naturally and as one would expect regarding
steering input during near-limit corerning.
Marc.
>If I steer into the slide in GPL, the car will straighten itself out and be
>pointed straight on the track. Whereas If I counter steer the car in a
>slide with power on, the car will always spin out and be pointed in the
>opposite direction....
>Counter intuitive...
>> It is counter correct only if you forget you are driving a rear-engined
>> vehicle.
>> Marc.
>> >It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
>> >steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
>> >I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
>> >slide and the car straightened itself out...
>> >This is counter correct...
>> >Anyone else notice this?
In your 2002, however, like
Putting the clutch in on any car that is at the limit of adhesion will
unload the chassis and induce a spin, esp in a rear engined car like the
911, infact I don't think you would get your foot on the clutch before the
911 would turn around on you. The olders ones are very vindictive when you
drive them incorrectly. Infast lifting off the gas at the limit in a 911
will induce a spin.
A front engined car will react a bit slower then a car with its motor
outside the wheels. It will tho spin just the same. Infact the desing of
older BMWs will induce oversteer at the limit and lifting just makes it
worse, declutching would not balance the car either. It would unload the
chassis a bit in probly induce the spin faster, at least it does in my Solo
ll car.
A typical mid-engined car will exhibit a power on understeer, power off
oversteer and be neutral at neutral throttle. Drive a 914-4 and this will
prove this out. With GPL you have an abunance of HP to work with so you
can induce oversteer anytime you want, but you should notice that off
throttle it tends to oversteer and on throttle understeer to a point of
where the power overcomes the tires.
One last thing if you decide to try the declutching on a 66 to 90 911 and
are rich please put me in your will.
Dave
rob.
>If I steer into the slide in GPL, the car will straighten itself out and be
>pointed straight on the track. Whereas If I counter steer the car in a
>slide with power on, the car will always spin out and be pointed in the
>opposite direction....
>Counter intuitive...
>> It is counter correct only if you forget you are driving a rear-engined
>> vehicle.
>> Marc.
>> >It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
>> >steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
>> >I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
>> >slide and the car straightened itself out...
>> >This is counter correct...
>> >Anyone else notice this?
However, if I do the complete real life wrong thing, over steer a slide, the car
either straightens itself out on the side of the course or even less, spins
around and points the correct direction..
Maybe its the steering wheel that I have? Nascar Sprint????
> When you say "counter-steer" do you mean steering left even though the car
> is going round a right hand corner? A lot of people use "steer into the
> slide" to mean the same thing! You seem to use them to mean opposite things.
> - Michael
If I was a novice and either backed out of it or hit the brakes, it would all
be over...
Now on the 69 2002, the car handles much much more neutral. It tends to enter
the turns with over steer then changes to neutral and on the exits either 4
wheel drifts or has a small push.. Pretty much predictable... It was a real
change driving the 02 after the 911. One of nuisances of the 02 was the
lifting of the rear suspension, always on the inside of the turn side.. Driving
on the Streets of S.F. the car would lift the pass side rear tire on a right
trunk helped greatly, but the car needs a larger sway bar to settle the problem
even further.
> > I can't really figure-out from your comments whether you disagree with
> any
> > of this...?? So I tried to make my point more clearly and with more
> detail.
> > I believe GPL reacts very naturally and as one would expect regarding
> > steering input during near-limit corerning.
> > Marc.
> Putting the clutch in on any car that is at the limit of adhesion will
> unload the chassis and induce a spin, esp in a rear engined car like the
> 911, infact I don't think you would get your foot on the clutch before the
> 911 would turn around on you. The olders ones are very vindictive when you
> drive them incorrectly. Infast lifting off the gas at the limit in a 911
> will induce a spin.
> A front engined car will react a bit slower then a car with its motor
> outside the wheels. It will tho spin just the same. Infact the desing of
> older BMWs will induce oversteer at the limit and lifting just makes it
> worse, declutching would not balance the car either. It would unload the
> chassis a bit in probly induce the spin faster, at least it does in my Solo
> ll car.
> A typical mid-engined car will exhibit a power on understeer, power off
> oversteer and be neutral at neutral throttle. Drive a 914-4 and this will
> prove this out. With GPL you have an abunance of HP to work with so you
> can induce oversteer anytime you want, but you should notice that off
> throttle it tends to oversteer and on throttle understeer to a point of
> where the power overcomes the tires.
> One last thing if you decide to try the declutching on a 66 to 90 911 and
> are rich please put me in your will.
> Dave
Its either we both have the same steering wheel combo (Nascar Sprint) or the
writers missed real life!
> rob.
> >I Don't believe so, My real cars are both rear engined (911S) and a front
> >engined (2002 ti) and both react to the rear stepping out the in same
> >manner. Counter steer the slide and apply throttle.. The 911 has a
> >distinctive need for more throttle than the 2002, but the results are the
> >same.
> >If I steer into the slide in GPL, the car will straighten itself out and be
> >pointed straight on the track. Whereas If I counter steer the car in a
> >slide with power on, the car will always spin out and be pointed in the
> >opposite direction....
> >Counter intuitive...
> >> It is counter correct only if you forget you are driving a rear-engined
> >> vehicle.
> >> Marc.
> >> >It seems very weird that when the car starts to slide, and I counter
> >> >steer as I do in a real car, the car in GPL always spins out..
> >> >I fought the resistance to counter steer and actually steered into the
> >> >slide and the car straightened itself out...
> >> >This is counter correct...
> >> >Anyone else notice this?
Dave