rec.autos.simulators

I've experienced this too. I know exactly what you mean, and I think I
know why it's happening...

In a real car, when you start to slide, you counter steer in to the
slide to catch it. When you do, the front wheels of your car always try
to align themselves with the direction of the cars travel, so it's easy
to find the right spot to move the steering to. It feels as if it wants
to go there. In GPL, when you counter steer, you don't have the feel for
the correct wheel position, you only have the springs. Thus it's hard to
judge exactly where to correct to with the wheel.

Now, once a slide starts, the slip angles at all 4 wheels increases. To
save the slide from becoming a spin, there are two things that can be
done. THe firsts and most logical would be to counter steer into the
slide. Two problems with this approach in a sim, however... First, you
don't have the feel of exactly where the wheel needs to be (when you
counter steer to save a slide, you want to get the front wheels to near
zero slip angle.) What actually happens in most counter steer situations
in GPL is that you reduce the front slip angle, but not far enough or
fast enough. THe result is MORE cornering force at the front end, just
when you don't want it. Next time you counter steer to save a slide in
GPL, try moving the wheel faster then you usually do, and about twice as
far. After some practice, you'll find yourself making those saves.

The other approach, while not the best in the real world, works better
in GPL. INStead of counter steering, over steer with the slide. This has
the immediate result of INCREASING the slip angles at the front, and you
instantly have LESS cornering force at the front end, and the slide
straightens out as a result.

Remember, GPL cars are very light mid engine cars, much lower polar
moment than a rear engined Porsche 911... if you can't counter steer
almost instantly to zero slip angle (and it's damned hard without the
"feel") you're better off oversteering to save a slide. If you try to
counter steer and don't get to zero slip angle almost instantly, around
they go...

Hope this made some sense... I haven't had my coffee yet today...

Trips

Marc.

Weird world..

Ric

While counter steering is more difficult in a sim because of the lack of
feel,
it will work if you get it right and for me is, along with a slight lift
of the
throttle, the preferred way to save a power slide exiting a turn .

As for the more vicious problem of loosing the back end when entering a
turn, there's another technique I've not seen mentioned here. If you
have
separate brake and throttle axis, a stab of the brake while maintaining
part
throttle will swing the nose toward the outside of the turn saving a
spin. If
you get it right the effect is very sudden and almost magical. The only
draw
back is you loose a lot of speed compared to counter steering. But if
you
know in your heart you're about to loose it, it's better than a spin.

This works because applying the brakes in a slide causes more loss of
lateral grip in
the front tires than the back because part throttle cancels some of the
braking in the rear tires. More lateral grip at the rear than in front
points the
car toward the outside of the turn. One other advantage with this is
there is
no sawing back and forth of the steering wheel required with the risk of
subsequent loss of control. How many times have we saved the initial
slide only to
loose it to a snap spin in the other direction, or at least had to stay
out of the
throttle until the car (and driver) settled down.

I've not been able to get anyone with a 911 to let me test the throttle
& brake
technique. Go figure. I suspect it would work well. 'Course Danny Ongais
who raced 930
turbos said he would drive his 930 street car fast only in a straight
line.

Very....Hope I did.  I've had too much coffee.

Marty